It looks like George W. Bush has won. Yippee. I hope everyone who voted for him feels glad when your civil liberties start slipping away, one by one. Tax the poor, give breaks to the rich? Sure. The draft? Why the hell not? Continuing this facade that is T.W.A.T? Wouldn't have it any other way. Let's go to Iran, let's go to Syria, Let's go to North Korea, take a few thousand more soldiers to the grave with us. Damn, why don't we even say that some obscure country is capable of producing W.M.D's... 'cause as long as there's oil involved, I love making shit up. So, uh... I don't know... how about Azerbaijan. Yeah, that's a good one. None of these hicks from Bumfuck who voted for me know where the hell that place is. Just kidding, folks, they don't have weapons! We were just, uh... keeping you on your toes.

I just wanted to write this to let you know, I hope you're all proud of yourselves, you conservative assholes. This prick, George W. Bush is FUCKING UP not only this country, our relationships with other countries and other countries in general. Thanks to this fuck, My GODDAMN generation is going to end up paying for his mess. I'm really proud of The United States of America right now, they stick to their guns, even when they know everything is going down the shitter. You just wait, when the shit hits the fan, and you try to hide behind the curtain that is your leader to find that he's not there for you, don't bitch at me. This is your fucking fault.

-- U must Feers Me (Dubyalovesblow00@hotmail.com), November 03, 2004

Answers

I noticed that we all observed a long moment of silence yesterday to marinate on the upcoming doom. Sheesh.

I want you all to know that I voted for Badnarik. My state went to Bush, so you can blame me if you want, but I'm sick to goddamn death of everyone saying "a vote for third party is a vote for Bush". You know why 3rd party doesn't get elected? Because that's everyone's attitude. Kill the Electoral College.

Yes, indeed. I hope you Right Wing fucktards will find your vicarious satisfaction in life knowing that the rich are getting ever richer. I know that none of you are rich, so I fail to understand why you would vote for the rich man's party.

Anyways, here's to four more years of the US being the world bully, raping the Middle East for oil, making enemies of our allies, never questioning how we went from a hugeass surplus in 2000 to an astronomical deficit in 2004, Social Security and MediCare losing ground, and the Patriot Act. Cheers.

-- Pasta (macaroni@cheese.com), November 03, 2004.

Oh, feldercarb.-_-

-- (Parallax281347689@Yahoo.com), November 03, 2004.

Very happy here, thanks. Thanks for your support!

Bazooka Joe

-- 2 (1@3.4), November 03, 2004.

how stupid is the average voter anyway? everyone has seen the shit thats be-fallen americans and america since Gwmd bush got his hands on the reins yet those stupid dumb motherfuckers have went back out and voted him right in again.

Well congratulations, the world is now an even MORE dangerous place, especially for americans. WAr on terror? ? What you have is some gung ho asshole christian fundaMENTALists stiring up a hornets nest of gung ho muslem fundMENTALERS and then gettin pissed off when someone gets hurt.

Well theyere going to reap what theyve sewn. Forgert world peace. forget middle east peace or anywhere else americs got its hands stuck. Iran and Syria will be next, possibly followed by Cuba and those draft notices will keep on coming while sales of ziplocks and toe tags to the military with go through the roof.

Pretty soon NO-ONE in their right mind will board a flight to anywhere because you can be sure hijackings and other shit will increase to match americas actions in stomping all over the world.

Thats not even close to whats going to happen at home. Kiss your civil liberties goodbye people, in the interests of 'national security' of course.
Course itll be those same assholes who voted this sic k son of a shit in thatll be gettin banged up for a year for not having their drivers liscence with them or for taking a photo of the whitehouse or something while their kids get drafted and most liokely shot out in some desert shithole. But hey, its the price to pay for a 'safer world' now that gwmd and his war hungry buddies are back in town.
Dumb asses.

-- u dumbfucks (howDumb@re.most.americans), November 03, 2004.

I blame 18-21 year olds. For being the noisest group of people these last four years to complain about the Bush regime, they sure did go fuck off and not vote when it was time to.

So in a way, I say they deserve Bush. Silence is Compliance. I hope he makes America a prison state for anyone in that age catagory who didn't vote. And then I hope Michael Moore is strung up by his toes and beat to death with large sticks for giving some of us hope that there was even half a chance the youth would actually do something this time.

-- Kay-Cee (kc@hotmail.com), November 03, 2004.

i aggree with you both, im sickend, sadden, pissed off at those worthless fuckbags for not getting out and voting athat piece of shit out of office. Now they got another four years of shit and i hope they suffer during it. GW will now make the world more dangerous than ever and not for terrorists but for americans and westereners in general. fuck him.

-- wcc (windowcleaner@shit.dang), November 04, 2004.

Next time around if any of my friends don't vote, I will personaly kick their asses.

-- Anti-bush (Comrade_bleh@hotmail.com), November 04, 2004.

Yeah, fuck it... I don't fucking know... I'm just glad I'm not in America right now... Every time I see an American newspaper it makes me want to shoot myself in the fucking head... Seriously the world is so fukkked up right now and I feel like maybe if I drink a lot it will help but it really doesn't... I just hope that none of my friends get sent to fucking Iraq... Seriously didn't we learn anything from Vietnam? It's not the same thing obviously but Jesus fucking Christ- maybe we should just do something else with our billons of tax dollars... Like actually try to IMPROVE something in America instead of just going in and blowing shit up in other countries... Call me a radical, I don't know... Everyone has this shitty view of America and I want to be proud of my country because we are rich and powerful and strong but yet we are fukkked in the head I think... Yeah, I love the fact that my fucking tax dollars are going to Iraq to build some new fukkking prison or something... That's fukkking great... I mean this is serious shit though... Bush likes to blow a lot of sunshine up his own fukkking ass talking about how we are "fighting the war on terrorism" (which btw is an even more hopeless cause than Vietnam)... Yeah Bush, we are going to totally obliterate the terrorists in the world, yeah fukkking right, make me fukkking hurl... We just need to maybe bomb more countries that can't fukkking defend themselves against us... Yeah, great idea... 4 more years of being scared by the television, great... Can't wait until I get home for the next fukkking "orange alert"... Not like Kerry would have been much better though... This great fukkking 2 party system we have, what a democracy... Same fukkking thing, different fukkking name, Republikkkans and Demockkkrats... Goddamn it... Money is power I guess and so we are all fucking fukkked... Well I guess I should go drink more alcohol and think about how totally useless this situation is... Yeah, that will help... Well shit... What can I do, NOTHING right now, that's great... I like that... All I can do is bitch online, great... That really fukkking helps... Well anyway, fuck, I don't know... I don't know what to do (except try to drown my problems in fukkking alcohol)... So I will do that... Good nite, America, home sweet fukkking home...

-- Lynn Nelson (violet_rhino@yahoo.com), November 20, 2004.

Don't you people realize the goal of these terroists is to kill each and every person that is not of the same mind set. You people are out of your fucking minds. I tell you what. Give one of these cocksucking terrorists a fully loaded AK47 and put them into the middle of an American Mall and see how many dead American men, women and children you have when the piece of shit has an empty clip. You people have no fucking idea what we are dealing with here. At least try to get an understanding of who what the enemy is before you start blabbing at the fucking gums. Yeah Jonh Kerry will make everything all right. He's a piece of shit also. He's fucking clueless whe nit comes to foriegn relations. Some people are so fucking ignorant. WAKE UP fuckheads!

-- Rob (desporadoAZ@yahoo.com), November 30, 2004.

Congradulations on a really stupid post. Can you point to me where anyone has argued that terrorists don't want to kill us? That's generaly what makes them terrorists, dipshit. The problem is that we really haven't done jack shit in the past four years except get 1,200 American troops killed (and over ten thousand Iraqis, the majority of them civilians) and trade our civil liberties for the illusion of security. If it's a war against al Quaeda you want, WHAT THE FUCK ARE WE DOING IN IRAQ? Saddam had no connection to al Quaeda, Osama bin Laden, or 9/11. And those weapons Saddam supposedly had pointed at us? THEY DIDN'T FUCKING EXIST! NO WEAPONS HAVE BEEN FOUND IN IRAQ! How fucking stupid can you get? I want a list of all the positive things Bush has done in the past four years. Try not to make it too easy for me to shoot down. I like a challenge.

-- Anti-bush (Comrade_bleh@hotmail.com), November 30, 2004.

Wow, anti- you are really uncorked,.

Let's see Bush's accomplishments: liberation of Afghanistan, which just celebrated its first democratic elections in history, first time with women's involvement. Rebuilt, with NATO's help *(major coalition of all the hip countries) and continues to build Afghanistan into a decent place to live... as seen by the stable currency, booming economy, returning refugees, etc.

A categoric humanitarian victory.

2) No other major attack by Al Qaeda on our soil

3) Invaded and liberated 90% of Iraq, rebuilt all infrastructure harmed by 30 years of Stalinist Baathist rule (hospitals, schools, water, electricity, oil, etc). Currency is stable, economic boom, construction projects all over the place. 95% of Iraqi soil has not seen major terrorist strikes. Most of the country is quiet and peaceful.

4) Rounded up and killed or captured many Al Qaeda terrorists IN IRAQ EVEN THOUGH YOU CLAIM THEY WERE EVERYWHERE BUT IN IRAQ. DIP Stick.

5) Captured 2/3rd of main Al Qaeda members, helped disrupt more attacks, convinced Pakistan to shut down illegal nuclear weapons part and technology trading ring.

6) Convinced Libya to give up heretofore SECRET WMD program that included nuclear materials than NO ONE suspected that they had.

7) Maintained peace on the Korean Penninsula - no war so far.

8) Rebuilt American economy despite inheriting a recession from Clinton/Gore in 2000 (economic bubble broke in 1999) - and the trillion dollar lose we suffered on 9/11 and all the corporate scandals that were brewing in the CLINTON YEARS.

9) EPA continues to report that pollution levels are dropping in all categories. The left tried to fake a crisis by raising the "goals" for certain categories during the last week of Clinton's regime - knowing that Bush would return the goals to the levels Clinton enjoyed for 8 years.

10) When was the last time the West suffered major wildfires (like it routinely did during the CLINTON years?)

11) FBI continues to report drop in major crime numbers - Ashcroft cracked down on child porn rings, human smuggling, and all crimes committed with weapons, thus dropping rate of homicide and violent crimes across the board.

12) ACLU has been UNABLE TO FIND A SINGLE ABUSE of the Patriot Act - not one.

13) The Democrats were free to run Farenheit 9/11 without censorship, but the Kerry Campaign censored Celsius 41.1. Freedom seems alive and well, if only one way. The 527s like Moveon.org were able (thanks to George Soros) to spend hundreds of millions on vicious ad hominems against President Bush - without any law suits and without any government interference....but the LEFT went ape mad only when 2 small 527s spending less than a million attacked Kerry! So much for being open minded and having the high ground!

14) Anti-bush hasn't been hunted down and removed to an undisclosed location even though if Bush was as bad as he claims, that would be the typical thing to happen. As it was, violence and intolerance was a virtual monopoly of the Democrats this time - shots fired, cars keyed and tires slashed, offices ransacked and stormed, people beaten and children scared... an environment of fear created by the democratic hatred of anyone who begged to differ with them. Paranoia and projection of what they would do if they had power, not what the GOP is actually doing.

And when we do catch OSAMA anti-bush will be the first to howl about how its not enough, how we had him all along, blah blah blah.

Typical 15 year old key board commando type.

Yes, that's my real name because unlike most people I'm not afraid of using my real name. I stand by my opinions, I don't hide behind anonymity.

-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), December 01, 2004.

"Let's see Bush's accomplishments: liberation of Afghanistan, which just celebrated its first democratic elections in history, first time with women's involvement."

First off, let's establish something basic: we haven't "liberated" anybody. These countries will be liberated when they no longer have foreign troops on their soil. Until then, they are still being occupied.

Second, the invasion of Afghanistan was just about the most half-assed operation we've ever had. We went in with just over ten thousand troops; less than the number of policemen patrolling the streets of Manhattan. We ousted the Taliban, sure, but the majority of the warlords who ran the countryside of Afghanistan four years ago are still in power. They still run the majority of the country like it's the stone age. Women are still beaten for leaving the house without a burqua. People are still executed for disobeying Islamic law. The vast majority of Afghanis have witnessed no change in their daily lives (wait, I spoke too soon...now they are free to grow opium once again after the Taliban virtualy eradicated the crop in 2001). Osama bin Laden? Nowhere to be found.

Wanna hear something really funny? The United States was the Taliban's biggest benefactor. The Bush Administration gave them $40 million in 2001 to eradicate their opium crop. Their brutal oppression and documented human rights abuses didn't seem to bother Dubya too much.

But nobody seems to talk about any of that; certainly not the "liberal" media. No, the Bush administration is content to secure a few big cities, set up a bureau of women's affairs that has no real power, have all the new "democratic leaders" smile for the cameras, and install Hamid Karzai, a fomrer UNOCAL advisor, as the local American puppet.

"No other major attack by Al Qaeda on our soil"

Umm...except for 9/11...

I'm going to assume that's what you meant to say...in which case, so? Clinton didn't have one either. Neither Bush's dad, or Reagan, or any President in history. Clinton goes 8 years without an attack and you say he was slacking off, but Bush goes three years after the single worst intelligence failure in our nation's history and you call that an accomplishment?

" Invaded and liberated 90% of Iraq, rebuilt all infrastructure harmed by 30 years of Stalinist Baathist rule (hospitals, schools, water, electricity, oil, etc). Currency is stable, economic boom, construction projects all over the place. 95% of Iraqi soil has not seen major terrorist strikes. Most of the country is quiet and peaceful."

Not sure what world you're living in...but here on planet Earth iraq is what we call a quagmire. The place is a hellhole. There are daily attacks and bombings. Are troops are being systematicaly killed by an enemy we can't contain...and it's happening in way more than 90% of the country.

1,200 soliders dead, and for WHAT? After spending the 80's arming Iraq to the teeth and helping him slaughter his own people, the United States suddenly wants democracy? Saddam WAS NOT a threat to the American people. It WAS NOT worth the lives of our troops to take out his regime, and we may well have fucked the country up even worse than it was before.

" Rounded up and killed or captured many Al Qaeda terrorists IN IRAQ EVEN THOUGH YOU CLAIM THEY WERE EVERYWHERE BUT IN IRAQ. DIP Stick."

Not surprising, during the period of lawlessness and complete anrachy that has ensued since Saddam's fall. If I was a terrorist, I'd sure as hell go to Iraq. What better place to find new recruits than a country that's just been invaded, bombed, and NAPALMED (yes, the United States used napalm in Iraq, which is a human rights abuse in an of itself) by the "Great Satan"?

"Maintained peace on the Korean Penninsula - no war so far."

Whoopty-fucking-doo. There hasn't been war on the Korean penninsula since the 50's. Are we supposed to beleive this is come great accomplishment on Bush's part?

"EPA continues to report that pollution levels are dropping in all categories. The left tried to fake a crisis by raising the "goals" for certain categories during the last week of Clinton's regime - knowing that Bush would return the goals to the levels Clinton enjoyed for 8 years."

First of all, I'd like to see a source for that claim...and second, the EPA under Bush has been completely neglectful..Bush saw to that by appointing as head of the agency a former biotech lobbyist. Check out the rest of his cabinet...he has appointed people who used to work for the very companies they are supposed to be regulating...and it shows. Bush has been the worst environmental President in modern history.

"When was the last time the West suffered major wildfires (like it routinely did during the CLINTON years."

Umm...last fall, California had some of the worst fires in recent years. I'm not totaly sure, but I believe Bush was president last winter...

" FBI continues to report drop in major crime numbers - Ashcroft cracked down on child porn rings, human smuggling, and all crimes committed with weapons, thus dropping rate of homicide and violent crimes across the board."

Even in the wake of 9/11, Ashcroft has prevented the Justice Department from checking if anyone they have detained as suspected terrorists has purchased a gun, saying that he doesn't want to violate their constitutional rights! So it's ok to arrest someone without a warrant and hold them indefinitely without charging them with a crime, but checking to see whether a suspected terrorist has bought himself a glock is unconstitutional?

The Bush campaign has a word for that...

"ACLU has been UNABLE TO FIND A SINGLE ABUSE of the Patriot Act - not one."

Wrong. The ACLU has found quite a few.

http://aclunc.org/aclunews/news0309/reports.html

Don't trust the ACLU? The Justice Department's own inspector general documented at least 34 credible cases of abuse. Detainees have been beaten for refusing to confess their alleged crimes, had their homes ransacked by federal and local law enforcement, verbally abused, and treated in otherwise degrading and dehumanizing ways. Read these:

www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/21/attack/main564189.shtml

www.capitolhillblue.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi?archive=19&num=2638

Even if what you said was correct--which it isn't--it wouldn't matter. Have you read the PATRIOT Act? It's scary. I'll refrain from using the O-word because it's become somewhat of a cliche, but the power it hands to the government is just plain spooky. The government can now arrest you without a warrant or probable cause, search your house and tap your phone line without a court order, find out what books you've been checking out from the library (makes me a little nervous whenever I check out something by Noam Chomsky or Abbie Hoffman), detain you indefinitely without ever charging you with a crime, never give you a trial (or if you're lucky you might get a secret military tribunal), refuse to give you access to an attorney...and Ashcroft would like to see this expanded so that suspected terrorists are eligible for the death penalty! This is not good! In a working democracy, the government is NOT supposed to have this kind of power, because THEY WILL ABUSE IT. Have the abused it yet? It's arguable. You say no, I say yes. But what about ten or twenty years down the road? If you let the government have this power, someone is eventualy going to abuse it. It's happened over and over again in this country. McCarthy abused his power and lives were ruined. J Edgar Hoover abused his power and people were harrassed, watched, and indicted because he didn't agree with them. Nixon and Kissinger grossly abused their power and all kinds of bad shit went down. Do you honestly think the Bush admistration won't abuse it as well?

" The Democrats were free to run Farenheit 9/11 without censorship, but the Kerry Campaign censored Celsius 41.1. Freedom seems alive and well, if only one way. The 527s like Moveon.org were able (thanks to George Soros) to spend hundreds of millions on vicious ad hominems against President Bush - without any law suits and without any government interference....but the LEFT went ape mad only when 2 small 527s spending less than a million attacked Kerry! So much for being open minded and having the high ground"

How did the Kerry campaign censor the movie? Sounds to me like another crappy, half-assed attempt to discredit Michael Moore instead of talking about the issues that nobody wanted to watch. No one is stopping you from watching FarenHYPE 911 (wow, you Republicans just get more creative every day, don't you?) or Celcius 41.1 (I don't get that one...). They just suck. Michael Moore makes a movie about issues , and these guys make a movie to say "Michael Moore is stupid!" Doesn't that seem childish and petty to you?

I never heard Kerry say that the Swift Boat Vets for Truth ads should be banned...he simply said that they weren't true, and most major news sources exposed them for the frauds that they were--including several papers that endorsed Bush!

"Anti-bush hasn't been hunted down and removed to an undisclosed location even though if Bush was as bad as he claims, that would be the typical thing to happen. As it was, violence and intolerance was a virtual monopoly of the Democrats this time - shots fired, cars keyed and tires slashed, offices ransacked and stormed, people beaten and children scared... an environment of fear created by the democratic hatred of anyone who begged to differ with them. Paranoia and projection of what they would do if they had power, not what the GOP is actually doing."

What?? When did this happen? I would really like to see a source for that...assuming you didn't just make that up...

"Typical 15 year old key board commando type."

I do what I can; I give money to charities, I protest, I write for the school paper, I volunteered for the Kerry campaign. There's a homelss shelter in DC that I help out at from time to time. Whatever I can do. I can't vote, but I want to make my voice heard. That's why I post here. I want to share my opinions and learn from what other people have to say, not just to hear myself talk. I want to make whatever difference I can make.

And I'm 16, by the way.

I know you're afriad of change and all, but no matter what happens, one thing will always be the same: governments lie.

-- Anti-bush (Comrade_bleh@hotmail.com), December 03, 2004.

you seem pretty smart for 16, im suprised.

As for that other guy saying Bush was doing all those wonderful things like 'dis- arming' libiya of their potential nukes and peace with korea ..etc , that would have happend anyway.

The real peace stuff is done well behind the scenes, bush is just paraded in there AFTER the deal is done to claim the credit. Hell, if was left to bush we been living a nuclear winter by now.

That blundering, half-ass educated (thats even worse than half educated btw) has waged TWO wars in four years, BOTH on countries that had NOTHING to do with 9/11. Yet the one country that was actually behind the twin towers attack (saudia arabia) remains in the good books with america.

Face it america hasnt a clue whats really going on with its so called govt. Well its been taken over by fking crooks for a start. Work it out from there.

-- wc (windowcleaner@work.blah), December 03, 2004.

Man, you are clueless...

Clinton had the first big attack on the WTC on his watch in 1993!!!!!!!!! And what did HE do about it? diddly squat.

Bush hardly got his people confirmed by the Senate by mid-summer 2001, and his first priority was to hunt down OBL - based on the evidence given him by the Clinton folk... indeed that very morning they signed off on the new US plan (strangely NOT pursued by BILL) to destroy Al Qaeda.

You simultaneously pooh pooh what we've accomplished in Afghanistan as being too little - not controlling the natural leaders there (warlords ALWAYS ruled the provinces), as well claiming we're doing too much "occupying, not liberating".

Well, fine, We still have troops in Germany and England, does that mean we never liberated them either?

Dip stick.

2) According to the NEW YORK TIMES and WALL STREET JOURNAL analysis of the actual locations of attack in Iraq, over 90% of Iraqi territory has not seen terrorist violence since the liberation. There are dangerous cities and zones within cities, specifically around the hotel where journalists live in Bagdad *(gee, I wonder why). But vast tracks and dozens of major cities aren't in conflict.

It's so much not a quagmire - as you'd learn reading any mil blog or any iraqi blog.

If we spent the 1980's arming Saddam why did we find ONLY RUSSIAN, FRENCH, GERMAN, AND CHINESE military hardware in Iraq??????

The country is far better off now than it was anytime before the war - with the exception of Fallujah and parts of Baghdad for obvious reasons. But since the a**holes have brought in on themselves, I don't know why you are so mad. Those who haven't taken pot shots at US troops or their so-called fellow muslims haven't been hit.

You MUST be a kid. You just admitted that non-Iraqi TERRORISTS have been caught in Iraq. That's a HUGE ADMISSION. Thank you very much! :)

The claim that the EPA is bought off and that things are worse than ever before is bs. Look at epa.gov. The facts aren't made up by the political appointees. I know. I live here, I've met with a couple of their (LIBERAL) scientists who admit that things are getting better.

You have claimed in the past that Ashcroft was a Nazi but here admitted that he has spared CITIZENS from unconstitutional search and seizures while not giving NON-CITIZENS the same benefit of the doubt. In case you don't know, none of the 9/11 hijackers where US citizens. So cracking down (ILLEGALLY) on US citizens wouldn't solve anything.

You can't have it both ways...the man can't be a Nazi if he doesn't act like a Nazi.

As for abuses... none of the cases involved CITIZENS. People here on visas are not citizens. Ergo, while they do enjoy HUMAN RIGHTS, they don't enjoy the same level of CIVIL rights as citizens do. Dip shick.

Not a single Lib Media chain proved the Swifties wrong on any point. They SAID they were wrong or debunked but didn't do it and stupid lock-set liberal kids like you won't do the homework.

I will forward you the list of crimes which Democrats have already been charge with committing throughout the campaign against Republicans. You never heard about the shooting incident? Or the Union thug invasion and sacking of the GOP local HQ? Amazing!

You claim governments lie. That means that the Clinton regime lied too doesn't it?

Glad you are socially involved - and help the poor. I did that too in highschool. It helps you see the humanity of the poor.

-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), December 03, 2004.

god your all such fucking IDIOTS.

how hard is it to figure out the peace can be only reached through power.

through war, you can have war, or you can have CONTROL. MAKEing it physicaly impossible for them to fight back. But as you are american, and probably voted for bush, you probably can't tell the difference.

-- beki darkou (freakofnight@hotmail.com), December 28, 2004.

Joe,

Sorry I'm late in my response. Must ahve missed this post. My bad.

"Bush hardly got his people confirmed by the Senate by mid-summer 2001, and his first priority was to hunt down OBL - based on the evidence given him by the Clinton folk... indeed that very morning they signed off on the new US plan (strangely NOT pursued by BILL) to destroy Al Qaeda."

Yeah, that's why he gave forty million dollars to the Taliban...and that's why Ashcroft told his Justice Department "I don't want to hear anything else about al Qaeda", as he is quoted as saying in the 9/11 Commission Report.

Is that also why the Bush administration CUT FUNDING for counterterrorism in the summer of 2001, opting instead to throw more money at that failure we call the war on drugs?

"You simultaneously pooh pooh what we've accomplished in Afghanistan as being too little - not controlling the natural leaders there (warlords ALWAYS ruled the provinces), as well claiming we're doing too much "occupying, not liberating"."

Well it's true...Afghanistan is still a hellhole, we haven't changed a thing. I'm not saying we need to, because

a) I'm not sure we CAN change Afghanistan, at least not any time in the near future.

b) If we COULD, it would undoubtedly cost more American lives, lives which simply don't need to be lost. I believe our soldiers are too important to be sent off to die in some country that is not a threat to the American people.

My point is, if you want to leave Afghanistan the hellhole that it's always been, fine. But don't bullshit the American people to pretend like it's progress.

"It's so much not a quagmire - as you'd learn reading any mil blog or any iraqi blog."

Ahem.

If we stay, more troops get killed for a cause that doesn't exist. If we leave, there is fucking civil war and Iraq become another Islamic state like Iran.

Sounds like a fucking quagmire to me.

"If we spent the 1980's arming Saddam why did we find ONLY RUSSIAN, FRENCH, GERMAN, AND CHINESE military hardware in Iraq??????"

First of all...source?

Secondly, it is not secret that George Bush Sr. spent his time as Director of the CIA arming Iraq in their war against Iran. We gave them chemical and biological weapons as well as a lot of conventional weapons. Here it is, from the Washington Post:

www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A52241-2002Dec29¬Found=true

"The claim that the EPA is bought off and that things are worse than ever before is bs. Look at epa.gov. The facts aren't made up by the political appointees. I know. I live here, I've met with a couple of their (LIBERAL) scientists who admit that things are getting better."

Things are NOT getting better. What a pantload. Bush has shown nothing but contempt for the environment throughout his career. First off, lookat the people he has appointed to his cabinet. His Secretary of the Interior worked for a think tank that promotes commercial development of public land. His Undersecretary of the Interior is a former oil and coal lobbyist. His Secretary of Agriculture is a former logging industry executive. He appointed a former mining comapny exec. to the Board of Mine Safety and Health. He's just appointed a former chemical company executive as his Secretary of Energy....just to name a few. He's drasticaly rolled back stsndards for mercury and arsenic in our water supply (which is funny, because I wasn't aware there was an "acceptable" level of poison in my drinking water). He's singed off millions of acres of National Forest land to logging and road development. His "clean air act" has a very ironic name, because it allows campanies to upgrade their factories without installing pollution controlls and it extends the time frame for them to clean up polluted areas. He decided to entrust testing our water supply for toxic weedkillers to the companies that make them. He has relaxed restrictions on strip mining and mountaintop removal. He's also decided that the EPA will no longer have to consult wildlife agencies to decide if pesticides will be harmfull...they'll just use them and see what happens. Bush has been the most irresponsible President in modern history when it comes to the environment...how anyone can look at his environmental record and see progress is beyond me.

"Not a single Lib Media chain proved the Swifties wrong on any point. They SAID they were wrong or debunked but didn't do it and stupid lock-set liberal kids like you won't do the homework."

Wrong. The Swift Boat Veterans for "Truth"'s claims were debunked by nearly everybody. First of all, everyone exposed the fact that not a single member of the group served on Kerry's boat. In fact, everyone who DID serve on his boat was up on the stage with him at the Democratic Convention (except one guy who was dead).

Now, some of them seved on a boat that traveled with Kerry's boat on the Mekong River, including the Captain of that boat, who claims that the battle Kerry won his bronze star from never happened. Ok, sounds credible enough, right? Wrong. Turns out the Captain also won a bronze star in the battle he now claims never happened, and his after-action report said the same thing Kerry's said. So right off the bat, we know the good Captain is full of shit.

Then we find out that several member of Swift Boat Veterans for "Truth" were interviewed by some of Kerry's biographers in the 90's. Guess what? They all backed up Kerry's story. It does appear that they have fulled a FLIP-FLOP, doesn't it? I wonder what brought it on? Couldn't have been the cushy flow of GOP money, could it?

"I will forward you the list of crimes which Democrats have already been charge with committing throughout the campaign against Republicans. You never heard about the shooting incident? Or the Union thug invasion and sacking of the GOP local HQ? Amazing!"

Still haven't seen it, but don't worry, I looked this one up for myself, because this sounded kind of interesting. What I found was really kind of a dissapointment. I was hoping to find GOP offices burned to the ground, car bombings, massive outbreaks of the bubonic plague...chaos, riot, and ruin...you know, fun stuff like that. Instead, what is the true story? A bunch of Bush yard signs got stolen or spraypainted, the occasional outspoken Republican got his house TP'ed by teenagers like yours truly, one local Bush campaign headquarters got broken into and a laptop was stolen. It really was kind of a let down. The Republican blogs were all screaming about an organized campaign of violence, sabotage, and terror by the Democrats against the Republicans, and I thought "hey, violence, sabotage and terror can be entertaining, I want to know more"...and what did I get? A bunch of teenagers swiping yard signs. Oh Lord, protect us! Not only is there no connection between said teenagers and the Democratic Party leadership, but the occasional missing yard sign or broken window of a GOP headquarters hardly ammounts to an "organized campaign of violence, sabotage, and terror".

"You claim governments lie. That means that the Clinton regime lied too doesn't it?"

YES! IT DOES! THANK YOU! FINALY I'M GETTING THROUGH TO YOU. I DON'T LIKE CLINTON OR BUSH! BOTH PARTIES SUCK!

Has it taken you this long to understand that **Anti-Bush** is also **anti-Clinton**? I am for REAL CHANGE. Both parties represent the staus quo, and the status quo sucks. Don't you get that?

-- Anti-Bush (comrade_bleh@hotmail.com), December 28, 2004.

Whos up for some old fashion EXECUTION STYLE ASSASINATION, join together start an interntaional uprsing and kill all of the rich (right wing) corporate figureheads that use our puppet president to do their work. Who's with me? Seriously I swear to god, if your afraid of being punished and being executed pubically, think of those dying in iraq following a pseudo goverment that is controlled by co's and exects. Think of the lives you will save. you think our country has only up untill recently been under controll of corrupt leaders? Read some texts on the history of the us even FDR dealed in this shit. its gone long enough america has gone sour. we are in need of liberation. who wants to base their life on cash? whatever happened to wanting to just fucking ive and be happy... i'm sick of having all this shit force fed to me in the name of nationalisim. Trust me, it wont happen nationally (it wont be started or finished by us(the us))we will need internation coperation hopefully we can find someone who wants to take down the US (not americans) (i'm looin at china). oh fuck it maby im just spinnin my wheels. I think the issue isint that there isint insentive, but there isint enough colaberaion.

<> maby its us, that cant keep ourhands off cash (humanity as a whole) humanity defaults to our most basic aspects. i think communisim was a step in the right direction but failed... where capitolisim suceeded. i also realise that democracy/capitolisim wont work when mixed (think oil and water). I' dont know... we need a fuckin einstine (possibily a group of them)to figure this out... cross them capitolisim/democracy/communisim it would be one fucked up love triange but fuck it would be better than what we have at the moment. I'm done ranting... could someone pick up where I left off. -Neoatomcica

-- -Granola (neoatomica@aol.com), January 17, 2005.

That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard here. I'm fairly certain it's treasonous as well. You don't assasinate your leaders, you vote. If you aren't happy wait four damn more years. Get real.

-- Tam (curious@curiouserandcuriouser.com), January 17, 2005.

Hey Granola, I'd be carefull about who I talked about executing...this IS a public board, and people have been dragged in for questioning by the secret service for a lot less...plus, we already have a proven snitch lurking here (KOBE), so, just a heads up, you can criticize him all you want, but talking about killing him can and probably will get you in some serious fucking trouble, dude.

Unless you're Jesse Helms and the President is a Democrat...in that case, say whatever you want!

-- Anti-Bush (comrade_bleh@hotmail.com), January 17, 2005.

o yea and what if kerry got in?? hmm lets take a good long look at that. ok first of all hey lets rat out our combat buddies even tho i killed lots of civilians. then while im there lets let the gay people go!they can get married hey its not my life just my damn country i'll just be messing up. o yea and while im there i'll i'll screw up america buy making health care more expensive so that the poor really cant get it. i mean man dude ur a dumb shit.

-- joe moon (jojomoon@yahoo.com), January 20, 2005.

Arthur Chenkoff has catalogued the good news coming from Afghanistan and Iraq for the last 2 years. You can find his reports on opinionjournal.com.

He links to bona fide local and international news sources to prove his every assertion - and shows that afghanistan is INCREDIBLY CHANGED for the better thanks to NATO and the US.

He does the same for Iraq - news you won't hear about from American or BBC sources... so those of you who think you know what's going on because you read the same tired old sources from the MSM are enforcing stupidity on yourselves.

Iraq is the size of California...yet fewer people have died there from crime and terrorism combined than have died in California from crime alone...

Statistically, you have a greater chance of being killed by gunfire in Washington DC than you do of being gunned down or blown up in Iraq.

But of course the MSM doesn't point this out. Their reporters stay in their down town Baghdad hotel and let the terrorists come to them... amazingly, most of the carbombs that blow up in Iraq do so WITHIN EYESIGHT OR HEARING DISTANCE FROM THAT SINGLE HOTEL... and do so in the morning Iraq time, so that by evening US time the Media can report "12 dead from car bomb".

If you search the internet every day you won't find huge reports of car-bombs going off nation-wide... nor do you hear much reports of ANY terror activity going off in MOST of the country...

because MOST of Iraq is peaceful and rebuilding...

-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), January 21, 2005.

For whoever is complaining. How bad are things for you personally. Has George Bush hurt you. Has John Kerry hurt you. Has any politician, movie star, military, terrorist harmed you in any way. Listen up. We DO live in the greatest country in the world. We have the best economy, by far, lowest unemployment of any other country. Iraq is gonna be fine, Afghanistan is gonna be fine, and we'll be fine. Stop whining. Wake up in the morning and be happy to not live under a dictator, or in the Congo, or Sudan, or be part of the aids epidimic in South Africa. Has the administration made mistakes? Of course. Have they had success? Of course. I have nothing to say to the people who think "W" is out to get them. And that he's an evil guy. Come on. If John Kerry had been president, we'd be in Iraq. If Al Gore was President. We'd be in Iraq. If Bill Clinton was president, after 9/11, we'd be in Iraq. Democrats aren't evil narrow minded people. Susan Surandon, Tim Robbins, and Al Franken aren't evil. They're good hard working american's that have their point of view. Is it wrong, no. It's opinion. But for everyone that points to Halliburton, and the reasons and why's of bin Laden, i gurantee don't know what halliburton does, or what bin Laden's intentions were when he authorized the attacks on 9/11. If anyone wants to tell me what they think, let me know. Because i do know.

-- G.P. Dolyle (telferpark2003@yahoo.com), March 05, 2005.

there is no such thing as organised terrorism,it's a lie to fool the ppl

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), March 05, 2005.

I suppose the 16 saudi hijacker's weren't organized when they hit the WTC and the Pentagon. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have even dignified that with a response.

-- G. P. Doyle (telferpark2003@yahoo.com), March 05, 2005.

"o yea and what if kerry got in?? hmm lets take a good long look at that. ok first of all hey lets rat out our combat buddies even tho i killed lots of civilians."

Wow, that's totaly fucking irrelevant. Plus I never said I liked Kerry. You may have to read more than just one paragraph, eh?

" then while im there lets let the gay people go!they can get married hey its not my life just my damn country i'll just be messing up."

How does it mess up our country if a couple of interior decorators in Boston want to go down to the courthouse and tie the knot? Are they having anal sex on your front lawn? I'm guessing the answer is no, so mind your own goddamn buisiness, you nosy prick.

"o yea and while im there i'll i'll screw up america buy making health care more expensive so that the poor really cant get it. i mean man dude ur a dumb shit. "

I would really like to hear your explanation of how Kerry would make healthcare more expensive for the poor. I really would. If your understanding of the healthcare system is anything like your understanding of the english language, this should be very, very entertaining.

"Statistically, you have a greater chance of being killed by gunfire in Washington DC than you do of being gunned down or blown up in Iraq."

That's just not true. As I write this, 1,506 American soldiers and 16,171 Iraqi civilians have died. That's a total of 17,677 people who have died since March 2003, and that doesn't even begin to include the wounded. Have 17,677 people died in Washington DC since March of 2003? I really doubt it. I mean, southeast can be nasty (hell, I had a friend get his car broken into right near MCI Center in downtown DC!), but not quite that bad...

"But of course the MSM doesn't point this out. Their reporters stay in their down town Baghdad hotel and let the terrorists come to them... amazingly, most of the carbombs that blow up in Iraq do so WITHIN EYESIGHT OR HEARING DISTANCE FROM THAT SINGLE HOTEL... and do so in the morning Iraq time, so that by evening US time the Media can report "12 dead from car bomb."

What's your point? They want media attention. They may be terrorists, but they aren't stupid terrorists. A successful PR campaign can mean the difference between a successful revolution and a bunch of beret-wearing fags with kalishnakovs. Fidel Castro did this well. The Zapatistas did not. It's no coincidence that the later is now an outmanned, outgunned bunch of hippies holed up in the Chiapas and the former is now the world's longest-ruling dictator still in power.

I still don't see what your point is.

"because MOST of Iraq is peaceful and rebuilding..."

I think Iraq BY DEFINITION can not be described as "peaceful"...maybe "slightly less fucked up", but certainly not "peaceful".

-- Anti-Bush (comrade_bleh@hotmail.com), March 05, 2005.

Since MOST of the terror bombing that occurs in Bagdad does so within ear shot of the MSM's hotel, it stands to reason that most of the city outside of their view is no more dangerous than any other major city.

Hundreds of other towns and cities in Iraq don't make the daily news...because no terrorist action takes place in them.

Do a quick review per week of the headlines. You know damn well that if Marines were dying in No-where-Iraq, you'd see the town's name in the NYT and hear it read from the lips of the info-babes on CNN.

Instead, what do you get? Bagdad, Mosul, and one or two other place names mentioned per week. But the US has troops throughout the whole freakin country. So my point is, most of the country is peaceful.

-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), March 11, 2005.

Anti,

"Statistically, you have a greater chance of being killed by gunfire in Washington DC than you do of being gunned down or blown up in Iraq."

That's just not true.

Actually, anti, I think it IS true, if you are just talking about gunfire. It was in the paper here a few days ago, if you look at just the soldiers killed by *gunfire*, and not those blown up by bombs or killed by accidents, on a per 100,000 population basis more Americans get killed by gunfire in Washington D.C. than in Iraq.

And that's a fack, Jack. It just depends on how you want to spin the data.

Bazooka Joe

-- 2 (1@3.4), March 16, 2005.