November 11, 2004

Good evening,

I just returned home from attending my first "Women of Destiny: Praise and Worship" gathering at my local Roman Catholic Parish. Most participants of tonight's all-female gathering had previously attended other "Women of Destiny" meetings and supposedly felt moved by the Holy Spirit to speak in tongues, chanting such phrases as, "Thank you, Jesus," "I'm yours, Jesus," and "Bless you, Jesus" [how can we bless God!] or, from the mouths of the "experienced" female charismatics, repetitive nonsensical intonations that sounded more like pseudo-Hindu chants to "Krishna" than reverent psalms to our God, the Holy Trinity. While most of these women seemed positive, sincere, and kind-hearted in their beliefs in Jesus Christ, their chosen styles of praise to God seemed unusual, unnatural, and, perhaps, potentially harmful to the unity of our Roman Catholic faith. I honestly feel that this type of worship is definitely NOT Roman Catholic in its essence. Curious to learn what our Church's official teaching is on this subject, I ask all readers of this thread the following questions: Have any of you read any Vatican-published articles on contemporary charismatics and the Roman Catholic Church? What does our Holy Father think about these Third Millenium "Women of Destiny" ministerial gatherings? Also, how does the Vicar of Christ view this so-called "divine speaking in tongues" that some of these women are practicing in our Roman Catholic Churches? Is this non-traditional activity a form of heresy? Are these "Destiny of Women" gatherings occurring only in the Archdiocese of Baltimore, Maryland, or across the United States (and/or throughout the entire world?) Please share your insights with me at your earliest convenience. Thanks!

Peace,

Mary

-- Mary McGrath (PeaceLoveJoy2U@aol.com), November 11, 2004

Answers

Mary,

I cannot comment on the "Women of Destiny", as I am unfamiliar with the group; however, charismatic prayer is most certainly scriptural, and the reason it is scriptural is that the Catholic Church approved those texts as fully in accord with its teaching at the time it compiled the Canon of Scripture. The current Catechism of the Catholic Church likewise approves the charismatic gifts, including prayer in tongues, describing them as "oriented toward sanctifying grace" and "intended for the common good of the Church". (CCC 2003) This is not a "non-traditional" form of spirituality. Rather, it was a common element of the faith and worship of the early Church which unfortunately fell into general disuse, and has been revived in the past 35 years or so, bearing much spiritual fruit in the lives of hundreds of parishes and millions of individual Catholics. The Holy Father appointed an official Vatican liaison to the Catholic Charismatic Renewal early in the movement, and that office remains in effect today. The Holy Father has also personally met on numerous occasions with prominent national and international leaders of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, and has invariably offered his support and encouragement. Most bishops have also appointed diocesan liaisons to the Charismatic Renweal in their respective dioceses. The fact that such Catholics are "positive, sincere, and kind-hearted" doesn't really shed any light on the validity of their spirituality; but the fact that charismatic Catholics in general are uncompromisingly faithful and obedient to the authority of the Church, and are passionately dedicated to the Mass and the Eucharist (perpetual Eucharistic adoration is often practiced in such parishes, and daily Mass is well attended), does serve as an indicator that it truly is the Holy Spirit's lead they are following, which is the focal point of this form of spirituality.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), November 11, 2004.

Because of some aspects of charismatic expression in worship, it is not uncommon for Catholics to have questions and concerns when initially encountering it. Following Paul's excellent reply above, I'd like to address two of your specific questions.

1. Commenting on the use of the phrase "Bless you, Jesus", you remarked "How can we bless God!"

How? In the manner of Daniel and the Psalmist:

"Thus I will bless you throughout my life, and raise my hands in prayer to your name;" (Psalm 63:5)

"Bless the Lord, all you works of the Lord, praise and exalt him above all forever..." (Daniel 3:57, followed by 32 similar verses)

In these cases, the word "bless" means "To honor as holy; glorify" (definition 4 in the American Heritage Dictionary) rather than the more common "To make holy by religious rite; sanctify" (definition 1).

2. You asked "Have any of you read any Vatican-published articles on contemporary charismatics and the Roman Catholic Church?"

Yes, here is an excerpt:

"The Catholic charismatic movement is one of the many fruits of the Second Vatican Council, which, like a new Pentecost, led to an extraordinary flourishing in the Church's life of groups and movements particularly sensitive to the action of the Spirit. How can we not give thanks for the precious spiritual fruits that the Renewal has produced in the life of the Church and in the lives of so many people? How many lay faithful - men, women, young people, adults and the elderly - have been able to experience in their own lives the amazing power of the Spirit and his gifts! How many people have rediscovered the faith, the joy of prayer, the power and beauty of the Word of God, translating all this into generous service in the Church's mission! How many lives have been profoundly changed! For all this today, together with you, I wish to praise and thank the Holy Spirit."

- Address of John Paul II to the Leaders of Renewal in the Spirit, 4 April, 1998 http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/1998/april/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_19980404_spirito-santo_en.html

You may also wish to read some more recent statements:

- Address of John Paul II to the Participants in the International Conference for Catholic Charismatic Leaders, 30 October 1998 http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/1998/october/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_19981030_carismatici_en.html

- Message of John Paul II to the Catholic Charismatic Renewal, 24 April 2000 http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/2000/apr-jun/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20000424_catholic-charismatic-renewal_en.html

-- Fr. Terry Donahue, CC (terrydonahue@usa.net), November 12, 2004.

Unfortunately, during copying & pasting some spaces were inserted into the URL's listed above. The corrected links below should work better:

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/1998/april/doc uments/hf_jp-ii_spe_19980404_spirito-santo_en.html

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/1998/october/d ocuments/hf_jp-ii_spe_19981030_carismatici_en.html

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/2000/apr- jun/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20000424_catholic-charismatic- renewal_en.html

-- Fr. Terry Donahue, CC (terrydonahue@usa.net), November 12, 2004.

Mary,

Entering a charismatic worship with little or no prep would certainly come across as a bit unusual at first. I can understand why you're concerned, yet it's encouraging to see you here asking questions rather than just dismissing it out-of-hand which is what so many would do. Paul and Father Donahue have provided excellent responses. I would just add that it may be that your attending that service and subsequently posting your questions here are indeed no coincidence. I sense that God is drawing you near to Himself and would recommend that you pray and ask God for wisdom and direction. There is no more powerful worship experience than a charismatic worship time consummated with the epitome of worship, the Eucharist. There is an intimacy about charismatic worship that can not be experienced in any other way. It is a gift from God and available to ALL of His children, yourself included.

David

P.S. I live in Westminster and work in Baltimore, small world eh?

-- non-Catholic Christian (no@spam.com), November 13, 2004.

"...from the mouths of the "experienced" female charismatics, repetitive nonsensical intonations that sounded more like pseudo- Hindu chants to "Krishna" than reverent psalms to our God, the Holy Trinity."

"experienced" = knowledged -refer to Gnosticism...

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), November 14, 2004.

P.S.

Mary,

Here is a link to an excellent moderated Catholic discussion on the topic: Charismatic Catholics in the Church

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), November 14, 2004.

Dear Mary, Be encouraged to take to heart with great confidence the answer from Fr. Donahue. He is in fact, much like David, a man after God's heart, a truly holy priest. The charismatic renewal enflamed my heart with a lively new love for God in 1978,and it's only gotten more brilliant. Through this movement of the Holy Spirit I realized the transforming power of Christ's love for me in a new way that empowered me to understand the scriptures, articulate my faith to others, and seek out time whenever possible to just sit and be with God. The charismatic renewal has served to bring many people to love the Catholic Church, most especially to appreciate and adore Jesus in His most blessed sacrament. The wonderful gift of praying in tongues is a gateway gift that helps one begin to open up to reception of the other gifts which equip us for full life in Christ. The end is of course, not the gift itself, but the Giver Himself. The gifts aid us on our journey to the Throne room of the Groom Himself. Our Holy Father Pope John Paul encourages us to receive the Holy Spirit in all His fullness, the charismatic renewal being an excellent channel for this. sincerely in Christ, Theresa Huether

-- Theresa Huether (Rodntee4Jesus@sbcglobal.net), November 18, 2004.