The Song of Songs of Solomongreenspun.com : LUSENET : Ask Jesus : One Thread |
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I believe this book is not sacred.
This book is more about passion, desire, and lust, than salvation history. It is the story of a young woman who Solomon desires but she loves someone else.She tiried to escape to meet him but was caught. Sgs 5:6 I opened to my beloved; but my beloved had withdrawn himself, [and] was gone: my soul failed when he spake: I sought him, but I could not find him; I called him, but he gave me no answer.
Sgs 5:7 The watchmen that went about the city found me, they smote me, they wounded me; the keepers of the walls took away my veil from me.
Sgs 5:8 I charge you, O daughters of Jerusalem, if ye find my beloved, that ye tell him, that I [am] sick of love.
Sgs 6:13 Return, return, O Shulamite; return, return, that we may look upon thee. What will ye see in the Shulamite? As it were the company of two armies
The Christian Yahwist
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), December 03, 2004
Sex is good for procreation, faith,but for a man with a 1000 women is not. That man was Solomon. He desired a Shulammite. This young woman desired another man. The woman continues to try to escape to be in the arms of her true love.The lust of the king for her is shown here:
Sgs 7:2 Thy navel [is like] a round goblet, [which] wanteth not liquor: thy belly [is like] an heap of wheat set about with lilies.
Sgs 7:3 Thy two breasts [are] like two young roes [that are] twins.
Sgs 7:4 Thy neck [is] as a tower of ivory; thine eyes [like] the fishpools in Heshbon, by the gate of Bathrabbim: thy nose [is] as the tower of Lebanon which looketh toward Damascus.
Sgs 8:8 We have a little sister, and she hath no breasts: what shall we do for our sister in the day when she shall be spoken for?
Sgs 8:10 I [am] a wall, and my breasts like towers: then was I in his eyes as one that found favour.
The lover compares the Shulamite to a vinyard.
Sgs 8:11 Solomon had a vineyard at Baalhamon; he let out the vineyard unto keepers; every one for the fruit thereof was to bring a thousand [pieces] of silver.
Sgs 8:12 My vineyard, which [is] mine, [is] before me: thou, O Solomon, [must have] a thousand, and those that keep the fruit thereof two hundred.
Sgs 8:14 Make haste, my beloved, and be thou like to a roe or to a young hart upon the mountains of spices.
This poem shows that desire is a very powerful emotion. But Yahweh is never mentioned in this book.
The Book is not sacred.
The Christian Yahwist
The Man of Yahweh
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), December 03, 2004.
>The Book is not sacred.<Sacred is a relative term. Many consider it sacred.
Maybe you meant it's not "inspired" to which I'd respond, perhaps it's not inspired according to the typical understanding, but has spiritual symbolism inspired by the Holy Spirit that subconsciously has its effect in ways we do not understand.
And... are you exalting the Name of Jesus above all Names and suffering for His Name and witnessing of His Glory and Kingdom? Or have you exchanged the honor of suffering for the Holy Name of Jesus?
-- Max Darity (arrowtouch@yahoo.com), December 04, 2004.
Interesting view, Max.Do you have the same view of the Deuterocanonicals?
.....................
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), December 04, 2004.
Max.,You must know that Elpidio denies Jesus' Divinity., and sees him as nothing more than a teacher. He would get along quite well with Jehovah Witnesses if he ever bothered to entertain them.
-- (faith01@myway.com), December 04, 2004.
Yes, I know he wants to begin a whole new church based solely on his personal views and uses a list of future celebrity deaths as some sort of sign that God speaks to him. I've seen the same sort of thing (and much more impressive) from those who deny Christinity altogether.What about my view above, Elpidio? Do you have a response or do you think your idea about the "Songs of Songs" is infallible, beyond question?
-- Max Darity (arrowtouch@yahoo.com), December 05, 2004.
>Do you have the same view of the Deuterocanonicals?<Rod, I have to confess I've never really considered the rank of the Deuterocanonicals before. I suppose I'll have to confront the question someday when I get a chance. ;)
-- Max Darity (arrowtouch@yahoo.com), December 05, 2004.
Well, Rod. If Max decides to be a 10% Catholic Orthodox he must accept the deuterocanonicals plus Psalm 151 and 3 Maccabees.No,Max, I don't need the deaths of people to prove a point.I don't use death to show my message is from Yahweh.
If you have read the e-mails to Clinton, Bush, Hugo Chavez (on Castro and Arafat) and The Pope, you would notice I want them to avoid death.
Besides that, everything I wrote to President Bush came true: take Afganistan in 3 weeks, use the Northern Alliance to attack Kabul,put someone from Afganistan in charge a month later (he did),not find Bin Laden, Invasion of Iraq before April 15, 2004, take Iraq in 3 weeks, put someone from Iraq in charge within 2 months or get 5000 US casualties (came true already) and 50,000 Iraqis (came true already), .....I even told him to get a bullet-proof vest.
I even said to Bush that no one or nothing will harm him until 2005. 2005 is around the corner. You will find out that this time not even the best bodyguards will be able to protect him. He will be shot between April and June 2005.
Besides these: Rod already knew about the death of Saddam's son Udday 2 months before it happened, Saddam going insane (he actually did), Arafat dying,...before it happened 3 months before.
I even put the death of Arafat in the Catholic Forum in the thread Zarove did on Arafat. Paul M. erased it. He even admit it that.
I told Eugene Chavez his life would change 5 years from now. The guy was 65 in November 2002. he made fun of me then calling me a false prophet of the internet. Eugene Chavez is still alive. The thread was called no Monopoly on the truth. It was deleted at the Catholic Forum but I still have a copy.
I am the only person in the internet that actually goes straight into this type of futuuristic activity. If President Bush believes I have lied to him he has the e-mails to prove it. After all, I kept the receipt of them. I even put one reply in the e-mails as proof he gets them.
The Christian Yahwist
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), December 06, 2004.
As to the Song of Songs...Max...I know is inspired.Every scripture is inspired, that is, it comes from a person's mind at any given moment.
Now divinely inspired,that is another matter. The Song of Songs is not.
Neither do I consider it sacred. To be sacred it must contain Yahweh's name, Max. It doesn't.
The Christian Yahwist
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), December 06, 2004.
You make up your own criteria for constitutes Scriptures.Luckily, we have a higher authority who over-saw that the Holy Written Word of God would come to us exactly as He wanted it to.
-- (faith01@myway.com), December 06, 2004.
Did Yahweh or Jesus speak to you directly, faith?I don't think so.
You just follow what others have said (the Catholic people). Evangelical Protestants are Catholics in disguise, even thopugh they deny the Pope, the accept most of Catholic Dogma, including the virgin Birth.
The Christian Yahwist
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), December 07, 2004.
Correction Elpidio--I follow the Word of God.Protestants are not Catholics in disguise--Lol!!
Protestants protest Rome--remember?
We have gone back to the Bible alone.
-- (faith01@myway.com), December 07, 2004.
No, faith. Luther, the daddy of the Protestant Reformation believed, as Pre-Vatican Catholics like Emerald, Jake,Ian, TC,...that he represented true Catholicism.The Christian Yahwist
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), December 07, 2004.
"Correction Elpidio--I follow the Word of God. Protestants are not Catholics in disguise--Lol!!Protestants protest Rome--remember?
We have gone back to the Bible alone." - Faith
I can't call myself a Protestant because of absurd statements like this. I am not a hater, I get along with most everyone. But I find more and more "non-denom" types believing in more and more lies. People are so wowed by "Godly" men, who are passionate, don't get me wrong, and sincere. But I stick to my statements from the other thread, protestants hold to just as many handed down teachings as Catholics. If Protestants went to "bible alone," you wouldn't have all the false teaching, because "bible alone" eliminates interpretation.
-- Luke Juarez (hubertdorm@yahoo.com), December 07, 2004.
By Bible alone is meant that we follow God's Word--minus tradition.The Catholic religion follows tradition and considers the Word of God a good source, but not fully authoritive.
I can't say anything about your church Luke--but I know that my church is not ritualist and does not do anything that isn't taught in the Scriptures.
I don't know what the *hate* part you reference is all about. But do not accuse me of hate because I stand up for truth. I am so very tired of that attack.
Peaople who protest the false teachings of Rome do not hate anyone. They simply love the Word of God enough to stand up for it.
-- (faith01@myway.com), December 08, 2004.
By Bible alone is meant that we follow God's Word--minus tradition.Not true. The Bible tells of following the traditions of old. The Bible is also a compilation based on those Traditions.
The Catholic religion follows tradition and considers the Word of God a good source, but not fully authoritive.
False, Faith. Traditions were given by God, so the fullness of His authority is ever perpetuated in the Catholic Church.
I can't say anything about your church Luke--but I know that my church is not ritualist and does not do anything that isn't taught in the Scriptures.
False, Faith. Your church is a splinter of the Catholic Church. Your church is ritualistic even if you can't see it. You ritually attend church on Sundays, pray, follow a format worship service, and habitually (ritually) read your Bible (to name a few).
I don't know what the *hate* part you reference is all about. But do not accuse me of hate because I stand up for truth. I am so very tired of that attack.
I am very tired of your attacks on the Church as you base your arguments on heresay and propaganda. Of course you don't know what the hate part is, Faith. You have been blinded by it.
Peaople who protest the false teachings of Rome do not hate anyone. They simply love the Word of God enough to stand up for it.
If your statement is true, people wouldn't use that word to describe your style of teaching. Fruits and all that...
..............
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), December 08, 2004.
I have an idea about Luke's and Kevin's Church.I studied the taechings of Alexander Campbell and the Christadelphians, a church associated with them.
Christadelphians don't believe Jesus is God but they believe in the virgin birth. They restrict salvation only to those who hear the word of God.
The Churches of Christ tend to avoid modern musical instruments. They reject all catholic dogmas except these two:They still believe Jesus is God and in the virgin birth. These are the product of the first ecumenical council of 325 AD.
Most evangelical Protestants accept teh decisions of the 4 ecumenical councils. They reject the later councils: 550 AD and beyond. So they won't use statues, or other relics in worship. But in dogma they are Catholics.
The Christian Yahwist
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), December 08, 2004.
"Christadelphians don't believe Jesus is God but they believe in the virgin birth."Elpidio,
isn't that what the Moslems believe, too?
are the Christadelphians modern-day Nestorians by any chance?
-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), December 09, 2004.
"the thoughts of God became flesh"
-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), December 09, 2004.
Faith, who decides what is taught in scripture to know if your church only does that which is taught?Here's the problem:
Protestants claims to be guided by the Spirit. Protestants claims to follow the bible only. Why are there so many disagreements between Protestants? Is there not only one truth? One bible?
Following the Bible only eliminates personal interpretation. For the sake of everyone, just read the text and take it for what it says! The moment you allow yourself to read into the text is the moment preconceived doctrine and misinterpretation enter. I've been just as guilty of this as anyone.
Now, often times there are meanings and concepts that take deeper understanding and revelation from the Spirit. However, these aren't going to go beyond (nor violate) any other portion of scripture.
I become more and more convinced that English is an American church folly. Think about it. The mulitiple meanings and phrases of words in English have allowed endless possible interpretations of the Bible. But hey, I'm not good at learning other languages. Two years of latin gave me little more than a headache.
Agricola!
-- Luke Juarez (hubertdorm@yahoo.com), December 09, 2004.