Does the Church teach that homosexuality is a choice?

-- Cameron (shaolin__phoenix@hotmail.com), December 06, 2004

Answers

Bump!

-- Cameron (shaolin__phoenix@hotmail.com), December 06, 2004.

No it does not. The Church doesn't teach anything about the causes of homosexuality. That is a matter of psychology, not theology. The Church teaches that behavior is always a choice, and that we must reject immoral behavior, regardless of the source of the temptation.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 06, 2004.

why should things like homosexuality,pre marital sex,the use of artificial contraceptives, oral sex,getting drunk in the weekend,gambling,living together instead of getting married...etc make someone a bad person?

come on,let's be reasonable for once

do you think that god would let someone enter heaven just because he was gay and convinced he dind't do anything wrong with that

what about all the ppl that are not christian and think just like i do that these things aren't wrong?

can god really reject someone because of something 'wrong' while that particular person was never convinced that that was wrong or sinfull?

what kind of god is that?

i think the biggest sin is listening to your church,religion,holy book... instead of following your heart and your own judgement between right or wrong and live that way

i think the real sin is when you obey these rules just because you have to,because you're scared to burn in hell and you form your opinions on what your religion tells you and not on what YOU really think,otherwise i wouldn't see questions on this forum like 'is getting extremely drunk a sin'?; 'is masturbation a sin?','is nudity on the beach a sin?','is it a sin to be married but not wanting any children'...etc...etc

this is what is happening now in palestina...

ppl being brainwahsed by politics and religion and think that they are doing the best thing in the world by blowing themselves up...

you all are focussed so much on the details so you forget the real thing

you are now the same as the jews to who jesus opposed for putting useless burdens on the people's shoulders

did he just sit and simply obeyed the rules of his religion?

NO!

he thought with his own head and saw what was wrong with society and people

he wanted to change the world and he even gave his life up for it

for us...

to make us realise how much more we can be than we think we are

but he couldn't do everything for us

he showed us the way

we now just needed to finish what he has started

we just needed to be a little little more like him

and we would never have to worry about a heaven

because we would already have one here on earth

and what do you do?

all time thinking and discussing what is sinful or not while our gouvernement is blowing up innocent people in iraq,while children are dieng from starvation in africa, while you just live in a hierarchal society without any justice and let everything just go it's way,while the rich get richer and the poor get poorer,(while you even vote for george bush!)

and then you say that jesus is your role model?

shame on you

what kind of example is this for the non-christians?

now i realise why the youth doesn't give a **** about god today

ps :read leviticus 13-31...those commands you don't keep eh?you sinners!

-- Pw (anarchywillbeat@anarchy.com), December 09, 2004.

"can god really reject someone because of something 'wrong' while that particular person was never convinced that that was wrong or sinfull?"

A: Will the police arrest someone and bring him to trial after he breaks into a store and steals a dozen computers, if that particular person was never convinced that what he did was wrong?? The law, either of God or of the state, clearly spells out what is acceptable and what is not. If you choose to ignore or reject the law, either of the state or of God, you are responsible, and you pay the consequences.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 09, 2004.

PW,

Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Your writing shows much ignorance. Lest it should become stupidity...read it.

Then, realize that the Catholic Church is composed of people who, to a great extent, do not read that same Catechism much less attempt to practice what it teaches. Many are called bishops and priests

If Catholics practiced, in particular, the section giving clear indication how to make moral choices we would have a different Church. But we have what we have, a broken mess.

If you do not take the time to read all of the Catechism, then please stop posting here. Read it and accept it and you will be on your way to being a positive influence on people, which we all need.

Before you read it, try to empty your mind of all the presumptions you have accumulated in this life so that its truth and wisdom may seep in your being.

If you read mnay of my posts you would see that I am not the most welcomed poster here. I am very critical of the Church on certain issues. I find the Bishops, particularly of the U.S., to be very arrogant men who disregard the very way the Catechism teaches how to make tough decisions. I would love to give them a piece of my mind but they are too busy on trivia to attend to important things like the family and marriage and justice. Just read the book and you will see.

Karl

-- Karl (Parkerkajwen@hotmail.com), December 09, 2004.

PW

I'll not come from a judgemental position and talk about sin. I haven't been the best Catholic out there.

I come from a part of town where there is a bar on every corner. I'll admit, I like bar talk and conviviality, but I have seen the practical problems that alcohol has caused more than a few. Its broken up relationships, married or unmarried. Gambling is another thing that can be fun, but in the wrong hands -- a disaster.

All discussion of sins aside. The teachings of the Church leads us down a less dangerous path than we might take by our own misguided wants. We have do have free will and can do what we wish, but the Church teachings won't get you in trouble. Many who ignore the basics find themselves in a mess. I've been lucky, but have certainly seen the wreck of more than a few lives.

-- Jim (furst@flash.net), December 09, 2004.

why should things like homosexuality,pre marital sex,the use of artificial contraceptives, oral sex,getting drunk in the weekend,gambling,living together instead of getting married...etc make someone a bad person?

{bECAUSE THE INNATE, OVERALL EFFEC TTHIS HAS MAKES THEM PETTY, SELISH, VENDICTIVE, AND GEENRLALY SURELY. i MEAN COME ON, ITS BEEN DOCUMENTED FOR CENTIRES, TJATS WHY MOST CULTURES HAVE REJECTED SUCH BEHAVIOUR, AND ONLY THOSE THAT ARE DYING ACCEPT IT...

Generlaly speakign all the htings you listed above cause mental and physical shifts in thoguht that detract form the ideal of helping one another, and palce all the emphasis on persnal gratificaiton, all the while desotyring body and midn in a seires of addicitons one enters into for the sake of release frm soem pain or other one has in ones life.}-Zarove

come on,let's be reasonable for once

{We are. Your not. You think beign reasonable is to say that Homosexuality, premarital sex, alcaholism, excessive gambling, and anyhtign else the stupid old Church thinks is a sin is rellay OK, and has no effect on us at all. All we have to do is beleive its A-OK and no bad stuff happens as a result.

Sadly, in the real world, thats not how higns work. Had it ever dawned on you that those silly religions, all of which seem to say the same things in regards to what you just listed, may have had a reason for condemning such behaviours?

You ask us to be reasonable, but then want us to think these behaviours are acceptable if we cast aside our religiosu beleifs. The toruble is that even most athiests disagree, and beelive we need soem basic contorle ove rout life. Hasnt the wrld seen enough depression? Hasnt enoug pain come into life? Alcaho.lism, Fornication, adultery, Homosexuality, rather or not considered right or wrogn by society all fo these thigns have a universal effec ton the Human Animal, and an effect which when charted shows the delcine of boht individual and society.

Do you want a trail fo broken lives? Do you consider that more reasonable than edicating peopel to the consequences of thee acitons and insrructign them to live there lives better?}-Zarove

do you think that god would let someone enter heaven just because he was gay and convinced he dind't do anything wrong with that

{I know many gay people, andeven those most vocal, espeiclaly those most vocal, really deep dpwn know that there is soemthign wrogn eith beign gay. Look into there eyes, see into there soul, and you will see it too.

In the end, thoygh, morality is based on preventing harm to oneself and others, and rather or not your politically correct viess on these matters coincides with our rleigous veiws is immateiral, the real queasion is not what peopel beleive is right or wrong, btu what truely is right or wrong, as defiend by the natural consequences of such actions. The aciton of Homoseuxlaity leads to isolation, depression, neurisis, and an early grave. It also leads ot confusion. so tou have a bitter life cut short due to your own poain and need to lash out. This is what you cal better?}-Zarove

what about all the ppl that are not christian and think just like i do that these things aren't wrong?

{What abouthte Myrad of Hindu's, Muslims, Buddhists, Taoists, and even Atheists who agree with us that condict shoudl be controled and peopel shod;l live wantonly by principle of common decency and common sence? And again, it doesnt matter what you think is right or wrong, the ramificatiosn of these behaviours still exists, regardless of personal prefernece to said behaviours.

Its like my Dog, she digs into herself, often drawign the blood, to scratch flees, and eschews thirsdays when I give her baths. She hates baths, and loves to dog, but her digging harms her and the baths help. The fact that the baths help and the digging harms is not dependant on my Sogs beleifs of the same, and neither is Homosexuality somethign that is right or worng because we beleive it so, we have no power over its onseqiences, and only power to abstain form the behaviour nt he firts place.}-Zarove

can god really reject someone because of something 'wrong' while that particular person was never convinced that that was wrong or sinfull?

{ Yes. Because the effect alone will convene anyone that isnt a stalworth, prideful idiot that its worng. Most gay peopel when they get older reret beign gay, and many stop. Most fornicators regret it later on,but often feel addicted ot it. Many alcaholics, indeed most, try desperatley to give up the dirnk. Lets face reality and be reasonable, these behaviours destry people, this is why they are called sinful int he irts palce. These arent arbitrary tules madde up by soem rleigion, they are practical and base don observation of human behaviour. again, the ability to convence yo hat soemthin is righ or wrogn rests in yor willignness ot listen, which you repeatedly demonstrate you lack. Instead, you must act pompous and pretend you are right and we are wong and hat you cant posisbley be worng and we ar elal unreasinable buffons. Meanwhile, your ohiloosphy on life trapps millions who lifve to regret it, and many milliosn more who dont get the chance to regret it as there life is cut short.}-Zarove

what kind of god is that?

{A lovign one. what kidn of God woudl allow us to act any old way we wanted to, without regard for th eocnsequence? WOudl it truely be more lovign to let us desotry ourselves and tell is its OK, and even encpruage it?}-Zarove

i think the biggest sin is listening to your church,religion,holy book... instead of following your heart and your own judgement between right or wrong and live that way

{The heart odf man can be deceptive, and the emotions can play tricks. we need to use reason, judgement, and past expeirence mroe than happy, warm feeligns, that are fleeting. You asked us to be reasonable, and yet here ask us to abandon reaosn, 2000 years of expeirence and elarning, sicnece, ofresight, and common snece, so we can follow our hearts. The Irony is that tyou think that if you follwo your own judgement you will coem tot he conclusion that these thigns are OK and that theres no reaosn not to allow them. Yet many Atheists dont fornicate, drink, or have gay sex. They follow thyre own judgement and reaise these are destructuve behaviours.

You dotn follow any judgement, and are a fool, who seeks only to follow the ways of tour own heart, even to destruction.

I follow the path of wisdom, which sint always what I want, btu what I knwo is best, for myself and all invovled.}-Zarove

i think the real sin is when you obey these rules just because you have to,because you're scared to burn in hell and you form your opinions on what your religion tells you and not on what YOU really think,

{The troible is, you presume that this is our motive. We all relaly think thes thigns are OK, btu only reject them becau e our religion says so. If we listened to our hearts and use dou own jusdgement we woudlnt. This is madness. een as an Atheist I woudltn advocate alcaholism, excessive gambling, fornicaiton, or Homosexuality, because the practical value of the mroal code alone is suffie ient reason to follow it. I don obey the rules because I fear Hell, and have put considerabl;ey mre htought into these matters than you have. Dangerous and desturctive behaviours shoudl be curbed if not haulted.

Really, stop beign so arrogant and start listenign to reason.}-Zarove

otherwise i wouldn't see questions on this forum like 'is getting extremely drunk a sin'?;

{ Uhm, that wa sone queation, not the bulk, and most arent like that...}-Zarove

'is masturbation a sin?','is nudity on the beach a sin?','is it a sin to be married but not wanting any children'...etc...etc

{ This is a Catholci orum...what do you expect?}-Zarove

this is what is happening now in palestina...

{ You mean polite, civil conversations abotu theology happen a lot in Palistine? This has got to be ajoke, roght? I mean, how many rifles do you think we trian on each other dialy aroifnd here, and why havent you been shot dead already?}-Zarove

ppl being brainwahsed by politics and religion and think that they are doing the best thing in the world by blowing themselves up...

{ This is a leap and a half... we arent advocatign blowogn ourselfves up, we are advocatign the use of reason. See, you think callign these thigns a sin is unreasonable, because people enjoy dpign them therefre there is nothign wrong. You ignore the conseqiences of the actions and pretend they dotn exist, then say peopel who objec tot he behaviour are brainwashed, dont relaly beleive its worng, and only blidnly obey a religon based on a fear of Burnign in Hell.

Do you see how arrogant and stupid this lien of logic is?

Now, explain to me why opposing desturctive behaviours that are knwon to desotry human life and happiness are relaly not worng? Becaue you feel in your hear there not? what aboutthe misurabel people who kill themselves each day because they lved tis way? Are thee lives so meanignless to you? Do you lack the foresight to have comoassion on all the lives this sort of thing desotrys?}-Zarove

you all are focussed so much on the details so you forget the real thing

{Im not. But what you forget id the big picture, the long run veiw, of such behaviours and there end conseqiuences. You pretend fornication, adultery, alcaholism, and Homoseuality have no effect on peopel, which is a lie, and condemn everyone to a life of misury because of yor arrogance and vanity. Is that rellay more reasonable or loving?}-Zarove

you are now the same as the jews to who jesus opposed for putting useless burdens on the people's shoulders

{Morality isnt a useless burden. often Homosexuality, fornication, adultery, and alcaholism, and gamblign become burdens. I mean, do you relaly think these thigns have no impact on peopel and htey can just quit any time, and relaly love it? That none feelt rapped by these behaviours? That everyone dpign them feels OK if therer not treligious? Get real.

Morality is what Jesus called us to. He DEMANDED we follow his commandments, and these commandments give us a better life, a more abundant life, because we arent burdened by all the pain these things brign.}-Zarove

did he just sit and simply obeyed the rules of his religion?

{As a matte rof fact, he did...}-Zarove

NO!

he thought with his own head and saw what was wrong with society and people

{And he condened the act of adultery, fornication, theft, and many oher htings... he didnt exactly tell peopel to live however they wanted and follow there own hearts...}-Zarove

he wanted to change the world and he even gave his life up for it

for us...

{He also said " If you love me, Keep my commendments", he didnt say " Go out and do what you want". To the owman atthe well he said " Go, and sin no more", not " Go, and sin all you want, cuase isn doesnt exist if you dont bekeive in it."

Do you even know the teachign s of the Christ? If not, stop imputing on this subject and read.}-Zarove

to make us realise how much more we can be than we think we are

{If, that is, we die to ourseles, top listenig to our sinful hearts, take up pur own cross, and follwo him... he didnt give us licence to do as we pleas but issued a commissionto follow him in all his ways, whch onlcudes binding us to moral laws.}-Zarove

but he couldn't do everything for us

{Nope, we still have to repent, be baptised, and follow him.which means we cant drink to xcess, have casual sex, have homosexual sex, ect...}-Zarove

he showed us the way

{Yes, but his way isnt to follow our hearts and allow these actiosn, btu to condmen them as they are desturctiuve. real Love demands we reject that which causes so much harm.}-Zarove

we now just needed to finish what he has started

{It was finished on the Cross, when he shouted "It is Finished!".}- Zarove

we just needed to be a little little more like him

{Do you relaly see Jesus drinkign until he is drunk ont he weekends, havign casual sex with a few girls, maybe a gay trist, before gambling his money away? Dont you think HJesus woidl ask us to gve these thigns up? Ddnt he ask peopel to srrender there sins?}-Zarove

and we would never have to worry about a heaven

because we would already have one here on earth

{And peopel wouldnt have premartial sex, be gay, or alcaholic, or addicted to gambling... but I digress...}-Zarove

and what do you do?

{We try to love peopel by instrictign them in truth.}-Zarove

all time thinking and discussing what is sinful or not while our gouvernement is blowing up innocent people in iraq, while children are dieng from starvation in africa, while you just live in a hierarchal society without any justice and let everything just go it's way,while the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, (while you even vote for george bush!)

{And you are stopping his how? By gettign drunk or shackign up?

Really, we are havign internet discusion, many of us arre workign to improve the world, we just cant always do thsat, an need breaks, thus this forum...}-Zarove

and then you say that jesus is your role model?

{Yes, you think if he was rellay our role model we woudl accept the very things he condmened? I for one try to counsil people who are haign a hard time, and get them over difficult issues. Im becomign a Pscologist. What are you doing?}-Zarove

shame on you

{Shame on us for what? Havign conversations? Or not allowign sins that Jesus told us nto to allow? Cant be the net, sicne you are here too wit us/...}-Zarove

what kind of example is this for the non-christians?

{A pretty good one, and shame tactics dot work when you display blidning ignorance of how the realw orld works and try to ignore the damage that these behaviorus you endorse as OK cause, with or wothout beieivign therer OK.}-Zarove

now i realise why the youth doesn't give a **** about god today

{Many do care about God, but peopel liek you ont because you ar too spoiled and arrogant to lift yourself out of your chair and stop critisisimgn peopel liek us who actulasly try to make a difference. }- Zarove

ps :read leviticus 13-31...those commands you don't keep eh?you sinners!

{Levitius 13:31 reads as follows.

31. And if the priest look on the plague of the scall, and, behold, it be not in sight deeper than the skin, and that there is no black hair in it; then the priest shall shut up him that hath the plague of the scall seven days:

uhm... we have a cure for lepersy now... so not relaly seeign what your gettign at...Indeed the whoek 13th chapter is about lepersy and if a man recovered...if a man today had lepersy we woulf do the sensable thing and take him to hospital for to be cured of a physicsian. Still, I dot think we are ignorign a commandment here.

Did you even read Leviticus CHapter 13 before posting, or did you pull the reference formsoemwhere?...}-Zarove

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), December 09, 2004.

Does the Church teach that homosexuality is a choice?

Maybe very weird to ask:

Does the Church teach that heterosexuality is a choice ??

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), December 12, 2004.

Heteroseuxality is needed to procrate the speicies, Homosexuality is not. Heterosexuality was he design fo the body, which even the most atheistic of sols will have to conceed, Homosexuality brigns damage. with that, I anser you Laurent.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), December 12, 2004.

I think this Pw character is -- robert (tulenedoispasconnaitre@hotmail.com)-- from the other impudent thread. Coming here to counsel poor Christians, who make him ''sick''.

The mind-set is identical, anyway. Instead of posing some questions he lays his punkish philosophy on others. The ways of selfish indulgence and rebellion. You can tell he's never had to suffer. Unless it was suffering in a selfish household, where nobody cares for an innocent child. Or being the son of a broken marriage. (Which IS a sad way to be brought up.)

Which is it, Sad Boy? Did your Dad hate you? On account of some feminine trait you couldn't help? And then you chose to hurt him back for his disgust over you? You push homosexuality now; Hell with straight people and Christians??? Why didn't you call upon God to give you self-confidence? He was there all the time. He loves you.

It seems homosexuals and lesbians never understand the truth about faith in God. That God has love for them also, not just heterosexuals. He loves you-- as long as you love Him. He wants you for His own; in that much you're equal to all of us. We've never claimed otherwise.

We also are sinners; but we love Him. He cares for His own and supports them with His grace. That's how we come to repentence. Not under our own steam. And that's how you've misjudged us; you think we have power over sinners, but we don't. We sin too.

If we repent and obey God, He won't reject any of us. But if we take your attitude, we're also damned. Do you understand that? You're damned if you don't obey God. He's giving you a chance to be serious here; to understand His divine Will. It's everything to do with your sins and mine. We won't avoid spiritual death and damnation any way but listening to Him. DO IT.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), December 12, 2004.

I guess our answers were sufficiant as PW seems to have disappeared. I hope our discussion was of some benefit to this fellow.

Over the years in the circles I 've traveled, I've run into people (like PW) who put out rather provocative statements and accusations. (I may have been guilty of this myself from time to time-- years back.)

They aren't really bad people, just searching, a bit angst ridden, perhaps looking for a tid bit of attention.

I wish him well and hope he finds peace.

-- Jim (furst@flash.net), December 12, 2004.

“It seems homosexuals and lesbians never understand the truth about faith in God. That God has love for them also, not just heterosexuals.” Eugene, please don’t lump all homosexuals together. Many of them do indeed have faith in God and understand that God loves them. Among those with homosexual inclinations, it is only a minority who promote homosexual activity as a good thing and have distorted ideas about God and Christianity.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), December 12, 2004.

In fact I tend to lump all homosexuals without faith together. The ones of faith don't usually show up here to say we make them sick. I was addressing only one of them.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), December 12, 2004.

What's great about it?
We meet lots of lost souls in this forum. He's just one; you're another.

We don't take anti-Catholics serious around here. If they wish, they can try to learn; and if not, they can take all their so-called ****** great posts back to whatever toilet they came from. Come here to learn. Trying to irritate us won't get you anything. That's just cheap shots; you act brave and punk on account of the distance between us. That takes no guts. Learning what your purpose in life truly is; that takes guts; since it might force you to start a new life. (You don't have the guts to start a new life, do you?)

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), December 19, 2004.

Oh, oh. It looks as if the street-cleaner was here before I had my post up. The trash was picked up.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), December 19, 2004.