My great-nephew was baptized and made his first communion in the Catholic Church. Some years later he was introduced to another religion and goes every sunday with his cousin, who is also catholic, to this other church. They were so influenced and wanted to be baptized into this other religion. I told him he was already baptized a Catholic, and it would always be this way, and nothing could change this fact. Apparently, it did not sink in.

I am wondering how wrong, morally, is this, and what state does this leave one's soul in. Can they come back to the Catholic Church or would there be something special they have to do? Would this have to be confessed.

Pat

-- Pat (pahusch@sbcglobal.net), January 10, 2005

Answers

bump

-- (b@um.p), January 10, 2005.

Hi Pat,

So your great nephew wants to be born again, Better warn his mother she most likely will not want labor pains again. But onto the Spiritual question at hand.

I would suggest you ask your nephew if his Church holds to the Nicene Creed that the Catholic Church, to all the Eastern Churches separated from Rome, and to most of the Protestant denominations hold to. (most likely not) however if they do point out the last lines in it which says

"And one holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We confess (I confess) ** one baptism for the remission of sins**. And we look for (I look for) the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."

If he had never been Baptized as a Catholic Church, but was in a different denomination the Catholic Church WOULD Acknowedge and accept it as a legitimate Baptism if he wanted to become a Catholic.

Below is a link regarding the sacrament of Baptism which into detail But Please point out to him Section #2 The Negative Document: "De Baptismo" so he can think a little about it.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02258b.htm

To my knowledge if he chose to do it any way I believe that as far as the Church goes it is a neutral issue since he neither gains nor loses anything, Maybe you can help him to find a Catholic Church that is more pro-active that he would find of interest to him, so if nothing else he can enjoy both should he later see any Hmmm ( Flaws ) in the other Church-

As far as coming back to the Church he is always welcomed back, Any Idea what denomination he is involved with?

-- Michael G. (NoEmail@Nowhere.no), January 11, 2005.

He's been born again; in baptism, and he's a Catholic as a result. He cannot go elsewhere to be born ONCE MORE! (''again'') with somebody else's Church. It's a farce. He's been deceived and now proceeds in confusion to a LOST faith.

No Catholic should have to fall into these errors. If he had been taught at home, in Church, or by godparents, his faith would not be threatened. But it is.

Don't say he won't gain or lose either way. It's just that kind of attitude which leads to indifference about your final perseverance. The Catholic faith is something priceless. Do something for this young man. Pay more attention.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), January 11, 2005.

Hello Pat!

Well, thank God that your great-nephew and his cousin do worship every Sunday. That implies they have good faith.

The danger, of course, is that this other church could be teaching lots of anti-Catholic things. And, they probably lack the great grace and blessing of Confession (how can one keep right with God without humble confession?), and the true presence of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament.

So, though they may be hearing some good things in the preaching, and thank God still have the grace and blessing of prayer, they lose a lot of opportunities that they would have in the Catholic Church.

I'd like to know more about this church, and why they find it so attractive, what is moving and motivating them.

I *am* glad they love God.

-- Michael (edwardsronning@prodigy.net), January 11, 2005.

As a believer in Christ, you are considered a new creation only because you are forgiven for your sins when you are "born-again". There are no rules in following Christ ! I'm not saying Catholics are wrong. But in the commandments...It does state that we as believers in Christ and followers of Gods Law.....we are not to idolize any statues or forms of other gods ! Mary not only wasn't the one that saved our world...Jesus is ! Mary was the biological mother of The Lord. She is not meant to be prayed to. Not to mention, As catholics refer to their teachers as "Father"....As a CHRISTian...we follow no religion/rules.....so we know of only the Trinity. The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost !! As I mean no disrespect....I love ALL whom love The Lord...I only state these comments out of love. Read the Bible for yourselves !!! That is the book of life ! It is meant for everyone to read and learn. It will answer your all ! If anyone has questions, feel free to contact me. I hope I have not offended anyone in anyway ! If so, I apologize ! May the Lord bless you all - as He welcomes those who are unknown to Him ! In the book of Matthew...Jesus did say that "It is not the healthy whom need a doctor, but the sick" - God Bless ALL

-- Anthony Turchiano (only2websurf@aol.com), January 28, 2005.

There are no rules in following Christ!

Anthony,

This is shocking news to me! I am not offended by your errant and unfounded claims or taken in as I know better:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-17

13 But we ought to give thanks to God for you always, brothers loved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in truth.

14 To this end he has (also) called you through our gospel to possess the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

15 Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.

2 Timothy 3:1-17

16 All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

17 so that one who belongs to God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), January 29, 2005.

> "There are no rules in following Christ!"

A: Really! Where in Scripture can I find that statement??

> "I'm not saying Catholics are wrong. But in the commandments...It does state that we as believers in Christ and followers of Gods Law.....we are not to idolize any statues or forms of other gods!"

A: No kidding! It says exactly the same thing in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, sections 2112-2114. Pick up a copy and read it for yourself.

> "Mary not only wasn't the one that saved our world...Jesus is!"

A: Right. That's why the Catholic Church teaches that Jesus alone is Lord and Savior - which is how you yourself know this.

> "Mary was the biological mother of The Lord."

A: Mary was the mother of the Lord. Period. Not the mother of part of the Lord. Mother of the person Jesus Christ, true man and true God. Mother of man, mother of God. Mother of everything her Son is. How else can a woman be mother of a person?

> "She is not meant to be prayed to."

A: Nonsense. She is not meant to be worshipped. But there is a world of difference between worship and mere prayer. The Catholic Church absolutely forbids the worship of Mary or of anyone other than God. That would be idolatry. But there is certainly no commandment against talking to other Christians, and prayer is just that - communication.

> "Not to mention, As catholics refer to their teachers as "Father"

A: Yes, just as the priests of Christ's Church refered to themselves as "Father" from the very beginning (1 Cor 4:15, 1 Pet 5:13). Were they wrong to do so?

> "As a CHRISTian...we follow no religion/rules"

A: Then why did Christ found a Church? Why did He tell us that listening to His Church is listening to Him? And that rejecting His Church is rejecting Him? Why did He tell us that whatsoever His Church binds upon earth is bound in heaven? Why did He say that the Holy Spirit would guide His Church to all truth, and that the truth we receive through the Church will set us free? Why did He say that disputes between Christians should be submitted to the Church, and that the Church's word is final? Why does the Word of God say that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth?

> "Read the Bible for yourselves!!!"

A: We do! Under the guidance of the Church which the Holy Spirit guides to all truth. The problem arises when people try to read and understand the Bible without the guidance God has provided through the pillar and foundation of truth. That system has resulted in thousands of conflicting manmade churches teaching doctrines directly opposed to the foundation of truth, in direct violation of the stated will of God Himself.

> "That is the book of life ! It is meant for everyone to read and learn. It will answer your all!"

A: It will provide us with the truth only when correctly and authoritatively interpreted. Otherwise you will "find" answers in it, but the answers you "find" will not be the Word of God, but only your personal interpretations of the Word of God. And that is never the will of God. He wants us to have the actual truth, which can be known only through the pillar and foundation of truth, His Church.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), January 29, 2005.

When you pray to anything that is dead it is idolitry, period. We don't need to pray to Mary or other saints, we get to go directly to the source OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN, we are told to pray to HIM only, no where in the bible does it say to pray to anyone else. Yes we have respect for all Christians.

-- Ginny (hizstoryistrue@yahoo.com), February 09, 2005.

We never pray to the dead, only living saints. Idolatry means you give love to an idol. Our love is all for God Almighty and His Holy Son; in the Holy Spirit.

If you believe the Word of God, read John 11, :25- :26 -- No one dies who believes in Jesus Christ. Are you telling us the saints who loved Him most are dead? What good is your Bible to you, then, Ginny? You thought the saints were DEAD? Hahha!!!!!!!!!

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 09, 2005.

"When you pray to anything that is dead it is idolitry, period."

A: No. Talking (praying) to something that is dead is utterly stupid, but it is not idolatry. Worshipping something that is dead, or something that is alive and is not God, is idolatry. The defining element of idolatry is worship. If there is no worship, there is no idolatry. In any case, as Mr. Chavez pointed out, the Word of God plainly states that the saints are not dead; and Catholics accept the Word of God - all of it, not just selected passages.

> "We don't need to pray to Mary or other saints, we get to go directly to the source OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN"

A: We don't "need" to ask our family and friends to pray for us either, but Christians have been doing so for 2,000 years. If we can ask fellow Christians to pray for us while they are stll earthly sinners, certainly we can ask them to pray for us once they become heavenly saints. Do you suppose we lose our ability to pray when we enter heaven?

> "we are told to pray to HIM only, no where in the bible does it say to pray to anyone else."

A: WHERE are we told that, please? I don't recall any such passage. Unless you are referring to Matt 4:10; however, that passage tells us to WORSHIP God alone, which is exactly what the Catholic Church teaches. It doesn't say we can't TALK to anyone else.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), February 09, 2005.

Again, the theological problem raised by Protestants seems to be based on two things: misinterpretting common expressions (pray to as opposed to pray with) and perhaps the need to simply differentiate themselves from the bigger group much like companies seek slightly different designs to win market share.

MacDonalds comes out with the Cheeseburger - so Burger King had to as well, but they differentiated themselves by claiming that "flame broiled" was the difference over MacDonald's cooking method.

Religious groups do the same thing on theological and pastoral levels to differentiate themselves. You have the High and Low Anglicans for instance, or the Jehova Witnesses getting rid of the cross and using as pole...

Protestants in general though aren't thinking this crassly. They are mostly Northern European in stock - or Blacks whose masters were WASPS... so their very culture and cultural language didn't allow them to make distinctions which the Mediterrean peoples, the Latins, Greeks, and certainly Jews made all the time with respect to the difference between praying to someone, praying with someone and worshipping God.

Time and again in the Old and New Testament it is revealed that "the angels of God brought your prayers to God" - some MEDIATION was therefore going on there!

Christ is indeed the sole mediator between God and Man...the bridge between the divine and human, but HE HIMSELF set down precedents and commands involving us humans to work in unity with each other while praying to him!

He said that whereever two or more are gathered in his name... why two or more? why not just one? Ah, because there is a PUBLIC nature to following JESUS!

Paul asked that prayers be offered up FOR OTHER PEOPLE, ON THEIR BEHALF - and indeed, in Acts we see the whole community praying FOR Peter when he was imprisoned! There were INTERCEEDING TO GOD ON HIS BEHALF... they were thus "mediating" on his behalf.

How many times do you see in the New Testament people asking others to "pray for them"? Lots!

If therefore other human beings can ask other human beings to pray for them to God, and THIS ISN'T BAD... then why in the world would it be bad for us to keep this up with respect to those who have died in this world but live now with the Lord?

Now Protestants also confuse "worship" with "prayer". Yet from the time of Cain and Abel, "prayer" as in "talking with God" was distinct from "worship" of God which ALWAYS INVOLVED SACRIFICE.

You can't truly "worship" God at all unless you are offering up a sacrifice to him and just anyone can't offer just any sacrifice they desire.... from the Old to the New Testament it's clear that only the priests - so designated BY GOD can offer sacrifice and ONLY the sacrifice DEMANDED BY GOD.

In the New Testament, in John, it is CLEARLY stated by Our Lord with respect to the Jewish people (when speaking to the woman at the well) that the Jews worship God only in Jerusalem (the temple) whereas those people, the Samaritans don't know what they are doing (they had a temple too...) He also stated that the time would come when people would worship the Father "in spirit and in truth"....and later in John 6 he repeated to his apostles that his words about them eating his flesh and blood were "spirit and truth" - i.e. That was the new Sacrifice willed by God for Worship.

So men no longer needed to go up to Jerusalem to worship God....but they still needed to "do this in memory of me" and those offering the bread and wine were still men ordained to this task by the apostles to whom teaching authority alone had been given.

-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), February 15, 2005.

"As a CHRISTian...we follow no religion/rules.....so we know of only the Trinity. The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost !! As I mean no disrespect....I love ALL whom love The Lord...I only state these comments out of love. Read the Bible for yourselves !!! That is the book of life !"

Anthony,

Do you realize that believing in the Trinity is not found explicitly in the Bible. There are inferences which the Catholic Church used to come to this doctrine, 1500 years ago. The only reason you currently believe this is because whatever Protestant denomination you belong to felt that this didn't offend them in any way, so they kept it.

As for the Bible as the book of life, the only reason the Bible exists is because members of the Catholic Church wrote, compiled, and safeguarded the book.

-- Tim K. (tk4386@juno.com), February 15, 2005.

back to the question....

my mum was catholic... she went to a catholic school she was going to become a nun, she understood her faith very well (as you could expect)

she was baptised as a baby and confermened into the catholic church.

she travelled to the uk (from new zealand) and became a christain ie. she met God for the first time ( and i am not saying that if you are catholic you are not a truew christain just read on...)

she got baptisted (full imeresion) because she wanted to declare publicly her faith she did not feel that her first baptism was a real one because she had no say it the matter at all (she was 6 mnths)

so there u go there are others like your great nefhew pat!

-- kt (jc_died_4_me@hotmail.com), February 18, 2005.