I miss him very much. Google says his last post here was in Jan 2003. I know he was very sick; has anyone here heard any word from him or of him?

-- anon (ymous@god.bless), January 14, 2005

Answers

I miss him as well. Unfortunately, I haven't heard from him either. Perhaps Gail might be able to provide some insight into Mr. Butler's status.

David

-- non-Catholic (no@spam.com), January 14, 2005.

I have no idea about Mr. Butler. But I miss him too! I wonder his e- mail address is still valid. Also, Jeffrey Zimmermann -- He has not been here for ages either.

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), January 14, 2005.

Heheheh. That's me. Shhhhh! :)

-- anon (ymous@god.bless), January 14, 2005.

Wasn't Chris Butler the x-Moderator who deleted thousands of threads who said he had the wounds of Christ, and said he had all those private revalations from our Lord?

Has anyone corresponded with Bill Nelson? speaking of the past?

-- Mo (not@jj.mm), January 14, 2005.

I emailed Nealson, but got no responce...did so last week, in fact.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), January 15, 2005.

Over a thousand threads, Mo. Gone in a flash. He deleted almost every thread to which he had ever contributed, without regard to the tremendous efforts made by others who had posted helpful messages on those same threads.

He deleted most of the best threads ever created at the forum from 1998 to mid-2003, because he lost his temper and decided that he could not stay here any longer. And if he couldn't stay, no one was going to have the privilege of reading his words, even though that would also mean that no one would have the privilege of reading millions of words written by others. His last post was actually in June of 2003, when he "lost it."

You'll recall that he publicly admitted having agreed to (paid for?) the abortion-murder of a child he had fathered. He also said here that he had intentionally used at least one illegal drug earlier in life and was once unknowingly given something very dangerous and debilitating (PCP?).

These latter experiences led some folks here to wonder if his brain and other parts of his body had been thereby damaged. That would explain why he had become physically incapacitated, why he began to imagine that he had invisible internal stigmata, and why he thought that he was receiving dozens of daily private revelations. The alleged revelations conveniently approved of the content of his posts, allowing him to ignore others' valid attempts to contradict him.

IMHO, a combo of his physical damage and his pride and self-love (that arose from an admittedly huge, Ivy-League intellect) left him unable to make right decisions here on factual topics, on handling disputes, and on deciding whether or not to delete over a thousand threads.

-- (Bo@xx.zz), January 16, 2005.

"You'll recall that he publicly admitted having agreed to (paid for?) the abortion-murder of a child he had fathered. He also said here that he had intentionally used at least one illegal drug earlier in life and was once unknowingly given something very dangerous and debilitating (PCP?)."

Lay off Chris.

If God could forgive him in the sacrament of the confessional, what seems to be your problem?

The Lord's prayer itself dictates that in the measure you have forgiven others, so will you yourself be forgiven for your transgressions against the Father.

This is a load of sick speculation about another human being in public, and it is evil. Knock it off.

-- Emerald (em@cox.nett), January 16, 2005.

Fortunately there is the Way Back Machine, with which one can view old threads or posts that have been deleted. It doesn't save everything, but it's better than nothing.

-- (go@way.back), January 16, 2005.

Chris was a great contributor to this forum. I think many well- meaning Catholics, including Chris, left because of the verbal bloodshed that was taking place here...

Which leads me to say this: Before launching into a personal campaign against someone or their point of view, pray first. Even were your principles scriptual, if there is no reality of Christ in your speaking then it is in vain.

When we speak, there ought to be a testimony of Jesus flowing from us. This is the real building up of the body of Christ.

Anyhow, Chris, if you're out there, I hope you can make a public post someday, you are missed here.

-- Oliver Fischer (spicenut@excite.com), January 16, 2005.

True to form John (Bo@xx.zz the coward) Gecik. You continue to demonstrate your exceptionally poor character and why Chris, in all his suffering (which has nothing to do with your hapless conclusions), will always be in a class far above anything you could ever hope to understand. I think your post is both libelous and is bearing false witness. You got some serious repenting to do.

David

-- non-Catholic Christian (no@spam.com), January 16, 2005.

I would be very sad to learn that the above post comes from JFG. Of course he himself once told me that his most spectacular arguments were with Mr. Butler; while at the same time I always thought of John and Chris as two of the best reasons to participate here. We are broken people thrown into a broken world; if the above post IS John, (and there is no obligation, moral or otherwise, for him to say so, or for anyone who can see IP addresses to say so), then I would just urge forgiveness and mercy for Chris's memory. I'm broken too, and so is everyone else here; at this moment, let's not let our judgment take over our mercy.

-- anon (ymous@god.bless), January 16, 2005.

Well said David, a class act in every way, he is sorely missed. Anon I believe his eyesight was stable the last I heard and he was concentrating on publishing a book- on his conversion to the Catholic faith from memory. Hope somone can contact him.

Peace!

-- Kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), January 16, 2005.

No way is that John G!

Anon, are you Jeffrey Zimmerman?

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), January 17, 2005.

Trust me, Gail, that indeed is John and is much more in keeping with his character than you'd imagine. Don't forget I've been here since late 1998, so I know his posts even when they come anonynously like this one did. He might have even used an anonymizer to change his IP address so the moderators wouldn't know, but I know.

When I read John's sad words, I recalled the Sermon on the Mount, "Blessed are you [Chris Butler] when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."

David

-- non-Catholic Christian (no@spam.com), January 17, 2005.

david, you label anyone who appears to have been here before and posts anonymously as john. if your assertions are correct, john posts here under at least 50 or 60 identities. why not lay off john, since he is hardly involved here. also, chris was not as innocent as you think, it is true, he did believe that he had invisible stigmata and private revelations that told him new doctrine and yes, people did try to educate him as to why this could not be the case. that truth, however, is irrelevant to the fact that we should hope and pray for him anyway.

what makes me feel old (forum wise) is that bill nelson is considered missed as part of the good ole days, when i believe (if not certain though) that i've been posting here longer, as have even more forum members. people come and go here, and i can only hope that the purpose this forum can serve in their lives is met during their time in this place. there is no need for malicious attitudes towards john or chris, they are both human.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), January 17, 2005.

Paul,

But that's just it, he IS involved here under using pseudonyms and he DID post that message - I'm 100% sure of that and I've been correct the other 4 or 5 times I've outted him (not 50-60). It's not picking on someone to shed light on their deception, it's simply revealing the truth. Folks on this forum deserve to know that John posted that message. If he's going to dump that kind of garbage here, he should at least have the courage to use his name.

And 'yes', I'm aware of Chris' past as well and have exchanged private emails with him in the past and thus know more than many here. And as a charismatic, I also am familiar with mystical experiences in the Lord and do not dismiss his experiences as being the result of past drug use.

David

-- non-Catholic Christian (no@spam.com), January 17, 2005.

John has posted here under multiple aliases, and probably continues to do so from time to time. Overall, he's a good enough guy but has a streak to him that posters here know. He also is a fund of Catholic knowledge.

Chris is a good guy too, who as far as I know has both confessed and repented his youthful past. He was foolish enough to post some of that here to instruct others. Unfortunately, some people do NOT act Christlike continue to wave this like a bloody shirt over his head. If Christ can forgive him, I don't know why they can't. I also think it's foolish to attribute any private revelations to *anything*, and doubly so to judge someone by them. Take note of them and move on, you aren't bound to believe in them, and if they helped his spiritual growth, so be it. Personally, I can't find any valid reason to criticize someone who says they feel the presence of the Lord, but that's me.

As to why Chris deleted all his posts, I think that was a big mistake, and a terrible waste for the forum, as he contributed so much here. He prayed about it and thought it was the right thing to do though, so you can't ask much more than that.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), January 17, 2005.

Now there's some truth and wisdom. Well put, Frank. Thanks.

David

-- non-Catholic Christian (no@spam.com), January 17, 2005.

Posting under two or more names in the same thread, to simulate a discussion or to make it appear that several people agree with your point of view is deceitful and therefore unacceptable

I would even go a step further , 1 nickname per forum !!

Why should people post with 2 or more nicknames , such persons , I don't trust them , to me it looks like they got something to hide !!

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), January 17, 2005.

Thanks to whomever for the "Way Back Machine". Is there any way to update that thing so it grabs everything through to the present?

-- Pat Delaney (patrickrdelaney@yahoo.com), January 17, 2005.

"and I've been correct the other 4 or 5 times I've outted him (not 50-60)."

Don't pat yourself on the back to much Dave. You asked the reason Zarove mispells last week. This in itself shows you arn't on the ball to much with this forum.

Butler hasn't apologized for his deleting thousands of threads. He came back with an alias to attack John and I didn't read you post anything about that. His praying about that don't mean baloney. He prayed about his over fifty private revaltions a day. He just used this to show how hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooollly he thinks he is. It was a crock just like his FAKE stigmatta.

Satan needs to be confronted. I'd like to see a picture of his stigmatta. I wonder if he had it when he was high on PCP? PCP can affect you years later.

-- Mo (not@jj.mm), January 17, 2005.

Mo, do you like cutting people down all the time? You sound very confident of yourself. I wonder why this is.

-- Oliver Fischer (spicenut@excite.com), January 17, 2005.

Pat, unfortunately, the Way Back Machine appears to be an individual project of someone or some organization, and thus it is not controllable. It can be used to look at the older version of any website, and some of the old threads or posts from this forum that have been deleted will appear there. It can also be used to look up what the top of the page looked like around a certain date.

My understanding is that they archive the pages, but they do not appear until much later. Remember, they are archiving bits of the entire public Web, so it would understandably take awhile.

Here is their:
homepage
advanced search page
page for greenspun

-- (go@way.back), January 17, 2005.

That's pretty sad, "Mo". You have my pity.

David

-- non-Catholic Christian (no@spam.com), January 17, 2005.

I intended not to look at this thread agin, but heard that I should see how Mo stood up bravely against unjust attacks. In the process of finding his post, I noticed some improper or wrong things said by others, so I am here to set them straight, and I won't waste time coming back to see any further slanders by anyone.

Lay off Chris.

I'm not laying ON him. Moreover, you need to "clean up your own back yard" and stop thinking that you can tell me what not to do, Madam Banned Heretic.

If God could forgive him in the sacrament of the confessional, what seems to be your problem?

Unfortunately, some people ... continue to wave this like a bloody shirt over his head. If Christ can forgive him, I don't know why they can't.

Nowhere in my first post did I say that I had not forgiven anyone. A person, when the situation calls for it, can still speak sad truths about someone whom he has forgiven.

To the first person quoted: You, Madam, like the many others who were deceived by the slick Svengali known as Mr. Butler, failed to realize the purpose of my first post. It was mainly to inform (or remind) "anonymous@god.bless" of the terrible things that Mr. Butler did, so that he wouldn't miss him and wouldn't desire to contact him (which would be a dangerous thing to do, spiritually speaking, IMO). My post was also to let newcomers know that they were deprived of a tremendous stock of information, advice, prayers, etc., by a very disturbed individual who deleted over 1,000 threads.

Chris was a great contributor to this forum.

This is definitely true. But along with his many outstanding posts, he mixed in plenty of hogwash, including doctrinally, not just the imagined mystical stuff previously mentioned. He also mixed in lots of incredibly obnoxious intolerance of some who dared oppose him, and he committed the mortal sin of detraction against certain people (and then tried to justify doing it, instead of apologizing for it). Despite the loss of Mr. Butler's talents, the forum is better off without him, in the long run. The forum is not better off, however, without the threads he criminally deleted.

Chris ... as far as I know has both confessed and repented his youthful past. He was foolish enough to post some of that here to instruct others.

No one said that he had NOT confessed and repented. It's pretty obvious that he did. His revelation of his crimes was not foolish. Instead, OTHER things he did were foolish or worse. For example, deleting over 1,000 threads was well-nigh felonious, yet he never repented for that.

As to why Chris deleted all his posts, I think that was a big mistake, and a terrible waste for the forum, as he contributed so much here. He prayed about it and thought it was the right thing to do though, so you can't ask much more than that.

Merely a "mistake"??? What!!!??? Are you unaware of the full scope of the horrendous facts, even after they were explained above and on previous occasions?

Chris did not just "delete all his posts." He deleted over 1,000 ENTIRE THREADS -- i.e., almost every thread on which he ever posted. ENTIRE THREADS, including perhaps 10,000 posts (1,000,000 words?) written by OTHER people who had worked hard to compose them. Now all newcomers cannot see those threads in the archives because of the guy you nearly worship. Instead of putting him on a pedestal here, you should have been pummeling him privately for the last 1.5 years, to get him to repent publicly for his dastardly deeds at the forum.

And you say that we "can't ask much more than" the fact that he "prayed about it and thought it was the right thing to do"??? Wow! ARe you really so "Beguided by Butler" that you can't even see that he must have relied on one of his phony private revelations for an "O.K." on his massacre of the 1,000 threads!!!

Now there's some truth and wisdom. Well put, Frank.

As I just explained, Dave, most of what Frank said was neither factual nor wise nor well put. Sigh! The blind leading the blind and congratulating each other!

I would even go a step further , 1 nickname per forum !! Why should people post with 2 or more nicknames , such persons , I don't trust them

They can be far more trustworthy than apostate atheists like yourself, M. Poirot.

-- (Bo@xx.zz), January 19, 2005.

"Beguided by Butler"

CORRECTION: "Beguiled by Butler"

-- (Bo@xx.zz), January 19, 2005.

So, now that all doubt has been removed that Bo@xx.zz = John Gecik, the only question is who is "Mo". Might sound like stretch, but my money's on John Gecik personality # 2. He has a history of portraying more than one personality on the same thread, one playing off the other for support and lend credibility. John is the reason why the forum made the rule not to allow more than 1 anonymous posting per thread. At the time, they could easily confirm what John was doing and it shocked everyone. Today, routing posts through off- site IP addresses is child's game that anyone can do in a matter of minutes - especially for a technology professional such as John. So it's impossible to know for sure someone's identity based on IP address alone. One only has to read "Mo's" posts to realize he's deliberately using an exaggerated writing style that would mask his identity, and it's a style completely different than any other used here. Yep, I'm pretty much convinced John's at his old tricks again.

Just trying to shed some light on this situation here.

David

-- non-Catholic Christian (no@spam.com), January 19, 2005.

Oh and John/Bo/Mo, what Frank said was very gracious, not "blind". I understand why you're so angry about Chris deleting those threads. You put a tremendous amount of work into them trying to help people understand the Catholic faith. It must have represented months of "man-hours". See, I actually do recognize your invaluable contributions to this forum over the years and I disagree with Chris' decision to delete the threads, but I'm not willing to judge Chris poorly based on that one action. It must be much harder for you to forgive, but for your own sake, I susgest that you try. Bitterness and unforgiveness can reap a nasty reward over time. It's much better to forgive and let it go.

David

-- non-Catholic Christian (no@spam.com), January 19, 2005.

i propose a new forum rule, stop labelling all anonymous posters as john. heck, if i had made the name on my first post anonymous, i have no doubt that i'd have been labelled as john too. second, yes, john used an anonymous post on the same thread as one which he used his real name. his anonymous post, however, was about thread maintenance, not a false identity to make it look like others agreed with him. if you remember correctly, the rule is using more than one identity in order to decieve, not in order to clean up a thread. let it go, dave, whatever vengeance you think john has against chris, you definately have against john. deal with the fact that there are MANY forumites who were here in the past who didnt have exactly warm relations with Chris Butler.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), January 19, 2005.

paul,

If Bo isn't John Gecik, I'll eat a cookie. He has posted in the order of 7000 posts here, and his style is quite distinct.

Also, he and Chris had some tension between them, it's hard to imagine that anyone could duplicate his style as well as Bo did *without* being John. Not that it matters of course, "Bo" sharing his opinion is just as valid as "John" or I sharing my opinion, but there you are.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), January 19, 2005.

Paul,

You don't know what you're talking about sir. That's not the situation I'm referring to at all. Your history here doesn't go back far enough. John's pseudomania predates Chris' thread deletions quite a bit - 2 of the all-time low points of this forum. John's actions back then were indeed for the purpose to deceive and the entire forum at the time clocked him on it. It was so egregious, he left the forum for a period of time due to the backlash.

I've been observing John's posts for 6 years now - thousands of them. Many of them awesome defenses of the Church, unparalleled efforts in research and communication - even I admire those posts. But, John has a different side to him as well. One that he shows when he's angry. One that I've seen in posts here under his name and under pseudonyms and through emails he's sent to me in private. And one that I can recognize, better than most here, even when disguised. I know what I'm talking about.

I don't have a problem with John expressing his feelings here even when I disagree, but I do have a problem with him hiding behind a mask when trashing others. He's a sufficiently important member of the forum to warrant that he be up-front when he's communicating and he needs to refrain from personal attacks like he launched at Chris. Again, Chris did something wrong, but to list a series of long past sins unrelated to the topic and drag Chris through the mud like he did mocking and criticizing, is down-right wrong.

I could be wrong about "Mo" being John, but I know I'm right about "Bo".

David

-- non-Catholic Christian (no@spam.com), January 19, 2005.

I intended not to look at this thread agin, but heard that I should see how

Did a little bird tell you?

Madam Banned Heretic.

Ha!

the slick Svengali

Haha!

incredibly obnoxious intolerance of some who dared oppose him

perish the thought.

and he committed the mortal sin of detraction against certain people

I bet one of them was John Gecik. I just bet.

The forum is not better off, however, without the threads he criminally deleted.

That's because they had posts by John F. Gecik in them.

deleting over 1,000 threads was well-nigh felonious, yet he never repented for that.

Stop. You're breaking my heart.

Are you unaware of the full scope of the horrendous facts, even after they were explained above and on previous occasions?

How could anyone fail to be aware of the horrendous facts? They've been jammed down all our throats repeatedly. Time to move on.

Chris did not just "delete all his posts." He deleted over 1,000 ENTIRE THREADS -- i.e., almost every thread on which he ever posted. ENTIRE THREADS, including perhaps 10,000 posts (1,000,000 words?)

WE KNOW!!!

written by OTHER people who had worked hard to compose them.

Like John F. Gecik, no doubt.

you should have been pummeling him privately for the last 1.5 years, to get him to repent publicly for his dastardly deeds at the forum.

I think there's a refrence for that in Ut Unim Sint somewhere.

his massacre of the 1,000 threads!!!

He was a Moderator. He had the power of the keys. You are in schism from a Moderator and therefore not a member of this forum at all. You are de facto banned.

apostate atheists like yourself

Oh, boy.

-- Fo (Fo@go.bo), January 19, 2005.

They can be far more trustworthy than apostate atheists like yourself, M. Poirot.

Please , will you explain this to me , how & why ??

You know , I only give my opinion , you may post under 1000 or more nicknames , do whatever you please / like , but plz , be honest !!

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), January 19, 2005.

I dislike it when someone posts under dIfferent userids.

I have enjoyed John G's posts and at times Chris Butler's. Chris did get strange at the end.

He told me one time that he his health was very bad. I'm not sure what that entailed.

Maybe this was the problem and why he became so irrational.

I've screwed up a lot in the past and have no room for talk.

But, why so much hostility?

God bless

-- john placette (jplacette@catholic.org), January 19, 2005.

For the record, Paul, I could never mistake your posts for JFG. He makes proper use of capital letters, for one thing. ;P

-- anon (ymous@god.bless), January 20, 2005.

I would like to remind everyone that not too long ago, David was wrongfully accused of posting under other nicknames. Many people foolishly launched into their childish, natural, fleshy, and unwarranted attacks upon Him. Have we not learnt from this mistake?

And as for Chris, leave the guy alone. He's not here now. Let the matter rest. If you are still offended about Chris's mass-deletes or anything else he did, then that's your problem. Get over it. Christ's blood has washed him white as snow. I'm sick of all the "holier than thou art" spirit that's going on in this forum. If your post hasn't got anything worthwhile to say then don't say it.

-- Oliver Fischer (spicenut@excite.com), January 20, 2005.

agreed oliver, the purpose of this thread was to determine if anyone had any contact with chris and if anyone knew how he was doing. the answer to both questions, in my understanding, is no. the thread has served its purpose and has now degenerated into personal attacks. i would be pleased if the moderators would delete it

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), January 20, 2005.

Addenda to my previous message (stuff previously intended to be stated, but forgotten while writing):

~~~ Those who have tried to identify me don't know who I am, and that's as it should be at a site that allows anonymous contributions. Where monikers are permitted, readers waste time by trying to guess identities. The guessing and debating over identities shows a lack of maturity and lack of respect, since the important thing is not WHO is talking but WHAT (s)he has to say. What happens then is that the content of anonymous people's messages is sometimes outrightly rejected or carelessly glossed over by prejudiced readers who hate the people whom they suspect of writing those messages. That kind of injustice is bad enough when they have guessed the identity correctly, but even worse when they have guessed incorrectly, because they could thereby even knee-jerkedly reject what has been written anonymously by their own best friend.

~~~ In my last post, I handled the careless, inaccurate accusations of my supposed lack of forgiveness, but I forgot to mention two other erroneous accusations. In my first post, firmly factual matters were stated in declarative sentences, while certain other matters were stated in conditional or speculative language. Apparently some people cannot discipline their minds to read carefully, so they fail to distinguish between those two kinds of statements. It was therefore unjust when the following accusations were made toward me:
"I think your post is both libelous and is bearing false witness."
Reply: No. Nothing was false. The writer needs to learn the meaning of "libel."
"Blessed are you [Chris Butler] when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you."
Reply: No. There were no insults, no persecutions, and no falsehoods. My comments were expressed carefully, and I even respectfully referred to the subject as "Mr. Butler."
Thus, I did not deserve criticism, but criticism was deserved by the writer of the two quoted comments, who is a proselytizing fallen-away Catholic (i.e., a heretic).

Last time, I stated, "I won't waste time coming back to see any further slanders by anyone." Although I did return to post these addenda, I nevertheless kept my promise, because I did not read anything posted since my last message. Why should I? I am not a masochist. In case anyone said something supportive of me, I thank you.

-- (bo@xx.zz), January 20, 2005.

Bo is sure a jerkface, I mean a 100% jerk who's been wrong on everything he's ever posted. Don't bother responding to this, I'm not going to look for answers.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), January 20, 2005.

Oh wait, MAYBE I'll check for answers, but once I do, I won't be checking back.

LOL, I've had this exact discussion with John Gecik a year or two ago... What a bizarre coinkidink.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), January 20, 2005.

Zarove When you sent a email to bill nelson did it bounce back to you like his mail box was full?

I hope the old boy scout leader is still living. He is/was a good man.

I don't think butler had a life threating illness. He had chronic fatigue syndrome.

-- Mo (not@jj.mm), January 23, 2005.

Ah, now if only Chris had used those magic Chinese herbs and acupuncture, all these nasty problems could have been miraculously avoided! :-) (JOKE!)

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), January 23, 2005.