In this thread: Catholic school paul h. and I were discussing reactions to a Catholic School teaching comparitive religion including having some of the children dress up in traditional costumes and demonstrate other Religions prayer methods.

paul h made an interesting statement, about gaining a better understanding of "the fundamental difference between acceptance, tolerance, and violence"

I'm sure he didn't mean these are the ONLY three reactions, but I don't know what the appropriate reaction IS for a true Catholic to other Religions:

By definition, it can't be acceptance, of course, since then you would BE Jewish, or Budhist, etc... "Acceptance" http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=acceptance

- Favorable reception; approval. - Belief in something; agreement.

Is it tolerance? Comments on this board suggest not (like calling other Religions practices "bankrupt behaviors") "Tolerance" http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=tolerance

The capacity for or the practice of recognizing and respecting the beliefs or practices of others.

Of course we all know where "Violence" ends up.

So what is left? What do you think? What is the appropriate reaction for a true Catholic to other Religions? How do we want our children to view these people?

-- Pat Thompson (pat.thompson.45@gmail.com), February 01, 2005

Answers

So what is left? What do you think? What is the appropriate reaction for a true Catholic to other Religions? How do we want our children to view these people?

Pat,

Do you intentionally confuse people with their actions and or religious practices and beliefs?

Which other 'proper' 'religion(s)' do you speak of -voodoo, witch craft, Unification Church -etcetera?

What is your religion?

The Church teaches that we must respect the humanity and dignity of an individual. Additionally, that all 'religions' not possessing the full Truth comprised of both Sacred Scripture and Church teaching (Apostolic Tradition) are false. Toleration or acceptance of a false religion and false teaching is to be avoided and opposed... period... e.g. homosexuals are to be respected; homosexual activity is to be opposed (not tolerated)...

Do you authentically wish respect and or tolerance for other 'religions' that are to be justly discriminated against? Do you by posting in charity attempt to make authentic competent fraternal correction in this regard as per 2 Thessalonians 2:13- 15 and 2 Timothy 3:16-17?

2 Thessalonians 2:13-15

13 But we ought to give thanks to God for you always, brothers loved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in truth.

14 To this end he has (also) called you through our gospel to possess the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

15 Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.

2 Timothy 3:16-17

16 All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

17 so that one who belongs to God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

If your wish for respect and or tolerance of other 'religions' is not just dissenting opinion then offer reference to Sacred Scripture or Church teaching supporting your assertions that one is incorrect to reject and oppose other 'religions'.

Offer more than rhetoric or moral relative argument regarding unjust discrimination of other 'religions' or that other 'religions' should be valued (note: any Truth within a false religion is valued as it is Truth regardless).

Can you provide reference to Sacred Scripture and or Church teaching supporting your assertions as authentically the teachings of Christ and not just "progressive" interpretations or innovations to be avoided as per 2 John 9-11?

2 John 9-11

9 Anyone who is so "progressive" as not to remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God; whoever remains in the teaching has the Father and the Son.

10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him in your house or even greet him;

11 for whoever greets him shares in his evil works.

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), February 01, 2005.

Pat, you beat me to it, I was going to post a similar question, lol.

My own opinion, is that first, there should be a distinction made between "established" (in terms of time) religions, and some of the New Age cults (like Ramtha/J.Z. Knight, for those unfamiliar, here's an article at:

http://www.wweek.com/story.php?story=5860

as well as say, Scientology (bad sci-fi at best).

Religion, in many ways is like language, in that it shapes one's world view. Unless you study it in some way, you cannot hope to understand where people are coming from when they say or do things that are different. Also, studying for yourself (good translations if you don't read the original language) will help you sort out fact from fiction. Don't we spend a lot of time on this forum setting people straight when they've read or been told something incorrect about the Church? It is not fair to criticize erroneous information, which you or I may have about other faiths.

The three major religions, if I'm not mistaken, are connected by Abraham, are they not? The eastern (as in Asian) religions, I haven't read about in-depth at all, so don't know if they have any connection, maybe someone else here would know.

Also, I think of The Good Samaritan--he may or may not have heard of Jesus (yes, I know it is a parable)--but he took the right course of action in caring for his neighbor's needs. So, I think God will save all the truly good people. Maybe that is a test of God's, to see how we as a world solve this crisis of faiths among peoples.

Again, this is my opinion. I don't think the study of other religions in any religious (or public school for that matter) "needs" to include actual participation in the rituals of others' religions, but on the other hand, the Pope went to the Wailing Wall:

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/htmlContent.jhtml?html=/archive/2000/03/27/wpop27.html

As I said, just my opinion.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), February 02, 2005.

in the catholic view, (and i posted a response in the other thread for you as well)

acceptance ~ never. the catholic sacraments are valid and necessary for spiritual growth, participating in non catholic sacraments does not help us in any way.

tolerance ~ the answer to your question. we accept that despite the fact that other religions sacraments are generally without merit, that does not make them objectively evil. we can, therefore, live together in peace with members of other religions based on the fact taht their beliefs, while being without value to us are still acceptable practices which are not in keeping with but not contrary to catholic teaching on morality.

violence ~ in rare circumstances, yes, though it is important to understand that by violence i mean suppression though not necessarily through physical coersion. example, hitler. hitler had a belief that he was justified in murdering the jews. this is contrary to teaching of morality of the church. therefore, catholics had a duty to supress such immoral behavior (non-violently if at all possible, but with physical violence if necessary, as was the case in world war two). again, i reiterate that these are RARE circumstances in which a practice or belief of another changes from being devoid of value to being an objective evil. without understanding this fundamental difference it is impossible to understand the point that i was making on both this and the other thread.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), February 02, 2005.

Daniel:

Answers to your specific questions:

Do you intentionally confuse people with their actions and or religious practices and beliefs?

This was not intentional. I realize now that I should have made it clearer that I was asking two different questions.

Which other 'proper' 'religion(s)' do you speak of -voodoo, witch craft, Unification Church -etcetera?

I didn't want to re-hash the original conversation, but I provided a link to it at the start of my question... Lets see, I'll click on the link, read the second sentence... The newspaper article in question mentioned:

• Buddhism
• Islam
• Native American religion
• Christianity

No mention of Wicca, Unification Church, or others...

What is your religion?

I dont, see the point of this question and how it relates to my question, or to the rest of your response, but you asked so how about "between organized Religions"? I certainly dont speak for Catholics, but am VERY interested in understanding more about Catholics, hence my question here.

- - - - -

Could you summarize your answer to my specific question? I tried, and at first thought:

We should respect all people, but neither accept nor tolerate other religions

But THEN you quote a passage that suggests the exact opposite when it comes to people, that if a Catholic should meet any non-Catholic you should "not receive him in your house or even greet him; for whoever greets him shares in his evil works."

So you've made two conflicting statements about how a Catholic should view a non-Catholic, but have at least answered the question about how a Catholic should view other Religions.

Would you provide a more direct answer?

(I tried responding to the rest of your note, but never got very far since most of it was based on speculation on my part. I didn't make any assertions, and was looking to others to answer the question; I don't have the answer, therefore cant provide quotations.)

(And paul h, I will respond to your response soon.)

-- Pat Thompson (pat.thompson.45@gmail.com), February 02, 2005.

Would you provide a more direct answer?

Pat,

The answer that God provides is quite adequate and direct -try to understand and embrace it...

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), February 03, 2005.

What is your religion?

I dont, see the point of this question and how it relates to my question...

Pat,

It relates because I ask the question to ascertain just what teaching (s) of Christ you accept or reject -if you reject any. If you wish to avoid proclaiming the path you choose then you in effect set yourself apart from it... [this] would no doubt cause me to suspect your efforts to be less than genuine...

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), February 03, 2005.

Can anyone else provide more background information on this question that might help me understand Daniel H.'s original response? It appears to me that he is saying two opposite things, but unfortunately appears uninterested in explaining further, which is his right, of course.

I will have to do some searches on the text he quotes to see how others have explained this.

Not to make light of this, but perhaps Daniel asked my religion to determine if even conversing with me falls under the category of "sharing in my evil work"... I understand his concern that people ask questions with other agendas in mind, and certainly some people on this discussion board are "less than genuine", but as I said, I am interested in understanding more about Catholics, hence my question here.

-- Pat Thompson (pat.thompson.45@gmail.com), February 03, 2005.

"Not to make light of this, but perhaps Daniel asked my religion to determine if even conversing with me falls under the category of "sharing in my evil work"... "

Pat:

It's a game called I'll make the rules and modify them as I go along and in the end I alone being the most righteous will be judge, jury and executioner. Yes it is a long title but hey! It's all about control.

But if you want to play along you say, OH!! well you do raise a good question with this verse you cited.

"16 All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness,"

So my question is if ALL Scripture is Inspired by God why has much of it been censored? And then they say that all inspired Scripture is already in the Bible, and then you say Well what were the early Church Fathers using then?

So the game goes pretty much like that. But then the end slam dunk is when you ask, Now what year was is that Jesus became God in the Bible? That is when they really get upset and call you all kinds of....

But most of the Time you will find Catholics like myself who will simply try to give you a Straight, Valid and Rational answer to your question. It's kind of funny because it actually seems to draw people into the Church. Go Figure!

But you must understand their concern, after all we can't be drinking from the same water fountain as those (other) people now can we?

-- Michael G. (NoEmail@Nowhere.no), February 03, 2005.

Michael G,

If you can answer the question -do it...

As to reading my mind or knowing my intention -you play that 'game' all by your lonesome...

Pat,

Why can you not answer my question?

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), February 03, 2005.

Pat,

Which "organized religions" are you in "between"?

-- josh (josh3p@yahoo.com), February 03, 2005.

It would appear that I should have applied Novocaine to my post before exposing a raw nerve. Oh well!!

Pat:

I will Answer your question with an answer, and not another question.which appears to be the trend here right now.

You asked: "What is the appropriate reaction for a true Catholic to other Religions?"

#1 Is to Respect that each of them will have and share some measure of truth to them.

#2 Most will share a belief in a Single Creator of everything. We call ours God the Father.

#3 Most will acknowledge opposing forces Good-Evil, God-Satan

#4 Some will try to achieve perfection on their own while others, (Christians) will accept that we need the Strength and Salvation through Jesus Christ to be cleansed of our imperfections.

#5 To be willing to ANSWER questions from another Religion in a Fair, Accurate and Logical manner which the person inquiring will be able to understand without feeling that he is being Condemned for his beliefs. And hopefully this person will be able to better understand the added value of #1 being a Christian, #2 being a Catholic.

"How do we want our children to view these people?"

The Same as we would hope that they would Respect our Beliefs and hopefully learn what and WHY we believe what we believe.

I suspect that many of the self-righteous may find themselves in heaven saying, Hey!! where did all of these Muslims and other people come from? Or maybe they will find themselves somewhere else saying, Gee, I thought for sure Heaven would be Much Cooler then this!

But of course these are merely my thoughts, I am sure others here will have many other views of their own.

-- Michael G. (NoEmail@Nowhere.no), February 03, 2005.

I like your answer, Michael.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), February 03, 2005.

"I suspect that many of the self-righteous may find themselves in heaven saying, Hey!! where did all of these Muslims and other people come from?"

Michael G?!?!

...that is, in and of itself, self-righteous!!!

if there are Moslems in Heaven, it will be through the power of Catholic prayer - and Miracles. and those Catholics will be delighted to have seen their prayers answered. and those Catholics may, indeed, have been saved on account of those devout and endless prayers.

..though, if we dilute the Faith back to the reformation, we stop praying, maybe, we [as in -- everyone], stop going to heaven. because we embrace indifferentism, or its close cousin, universalism.

..but, as you say: "But of course these are merely my thoughts, I am sure others here will have many other views of their own."

Pat -- do you want an orthodox answer to your question - because i am willing to research it -- and to promote a response that really and truly addresses your real interest in the Church????

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), February 03, 2005.

"...that is, in and of itself, self-righteous!!!"

Ian:

Perhaps or was it intended to provoke some thought and further words? If we close the door on people when they inquire of the Catholic religion out of fear of attack then we will always run rhe risk of not bringing in the ones who have valid questions to better understand what we know and hopefully join in.

Even in the event the questions asked are for attack purposes then Catholics should be able to neutralize them with Knowledge of the facts. We can never teach calculus unless we have taught them addition first. Wouldn't you agree?

It's a simple funneling effect to truthful knowledge of Christ and the Catholic Church. But if we turn the funnel upside down what do we really stand to add for Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam ?

Ian: As always I do appreciate your considerate responses and input.

-- Michael G. (NoEmail@Nowhere.no), February 03, 2005.

Daniel:

The last thing you wrote directly to me was Why can you not answer my question?

Can you restate your question? I thought I answered all of your questions.

- - - - -

Now I am totally confused!

People like Michael G and GT's responses fit well with my world view, but this IS the Catholic forum, and I was curious in the Catholic point of view. I assume some of that answer will fit in with my world view, and other parts will not, and I am comfortable with that. I hesitate to quote The Matrix Reloaded here, but the lines:

Commander Lock: Morpheus! Not everyone believes what you believe.

Morpheus: My beliefs do not require them to.

ring true.

The first part of Daniel's response was what I was looking for, but then he went off the rails and totally contradicted himself. The quote he provided was very interesting, however, even if he doesn't appear to agree with it and won't clarify.

This is where paul h's excellent response has value; it is not just his point of view, it is tied in with Church teaching.

Ian, I would certainly be interested in a response from an Orthodox point of view, yes.

-- Pat Thompson (pat.thompson.45@gmail.com), February 03, 2005.

josh

I consider myself Jewish first and foremost; I had a Bar Mitzvah, and my understanding of the fundamental underpinnings of Judaism ring true with my experiences. It is a beautiful tradition, celebrating Passover each year is certainly a highlight--taking part in a ceremony that is as old as the Torah (Christian Old Testament) and has influenced so many people (yes, of course Jesus, the last supper, and the unleavened bread during Mass) is a wonderful experience.

As I learn more about Buddhism and Taoism, however, I find many Truths there as well. But there are fundamental differences; Michael G's list is a good example; his #3 Most will acknowledge opposing forces Good-Evil, God-Satan in particular.

The Tao te Ching, written around 550 B.C.E. in chapter 2 suggests that good and evil are purely human-made ideas, that they are not fundamentally 'true' or 'divine':

When people see some things as beautiful,

other things become ugly.

When people see some things as good,

other things become bad.

But this is a Catholic forum, not a comparitive religion forum, and I am not qualified to speak on behalf of any Religion, so lets stick to the question at hand.

-- Pat Thompson (pat.thompson.45@gmail.com), February 03, 2005.

Success! In a separate thread Steve mentioned that the Catholic Church has commented on other religions, so I thought I would take a look through the wonderful Vatican Web site to see for myself.

- - - On Buddism

Please bring back to Japan Our heartfelt greetings and good wishes to your brother Buddhists, to your countrymen whom We love and admire greatly.

the above is from Address Of Paul VI to the Representatives of Japanese Buddhism Monday, 7 November 1966

- - - On Judaism

Religious teaching, catechesis and preaching should be a preparation not only for objectivity, justice, tolerance but also for understanding and dialogue. Our two traditions are so related that they cannot ignore each other. Mutual knowledge must be encouraged at every level.

the above is from the Conclusion of on the correct way to present the Jews and Judaism in preaching and catechesis in the Roman Catholic Church

- - - Again on Judaism

Pope John Paul II in the great Synagogue of Rome on April 13, 1986: "The Jewish religion is not to us 'extrinsic' but, in a certain way, it is 'intrinsic' to our religion. Therefore we have towards it relations which we do not have with any other religion. You are our favorite brothers, and, in a certain way, we could say our older brothers".

the above is quoted in Why the Christian Faith Needs Judaism - by Card. Roger Etchegaray

- - -

Do a search on the Vatican Web site for many more examples...

-- Pat Thompson (pat.thompson.45@gmail.com), February 03, 2005.

italics off.

-- Pat Thompson (pat.thompson.45@gmail.com), February 03, 2005.

Pat,

What kind of answer are you fishing for? Is it my religion has the truth; your religion has the truth; everybody's religions have the truth? Unfortunately, my Catholic religion has the FULLNESS of the Truth; and your Jewish-Buddhist-Taoist religion has only part of the Truth. And to get to the crux of the matter, the Catholic religion has the Holy Eucharist -- the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God. As Father Shaughnessy said, "we eat our God."

Look at the lives of Blessed Mother Theresa and Pope John Paul II. They are excellent examples of how a Catholic should react to other religions. They did not give up an iota of Catholic Truth yet they acted in charity, respect, peace, and goodwill.

Watch EWTN and see how Mother Angelica and Father Shaughnessy deal uncompromisingly yet lovingly with people of other religions. They are also shining examples for Catholics of today.

We have an entire treasury of diverse examples in the lives of the Saints throughout the milleniums. They show us best how to react to non-Catholics.

Should we fight, stand up, or keep quiet? Each situation is unique, therefore, we have to depend on the Holy Spirit to guide us.

Yes, the Jews are our "older" brothers and sisters. Mary is a Jew; and she is our Blessed Mother. The Protestants are our "separated" brothers and sisters. And all of humankind are our brothers and sisters.

-- josh (josh3p@yahoo.com), February 04, 2005.

Michael G

"As always I do appreciate your considerate responses and input."

ditto, sir.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), February 04, 2005.

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

“The Church and non-Christians

839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ",328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329 840 and when one considers the future, God's People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330

842 The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race: All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332"

DECLARATION ON THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS NOSTRA AETATE POPE PAUL VI, OCTOBER 28, 1965

“2. From ancient times down to the present, there is found among various peoples a certain perception of that hidden power which hovers over the course of things and over the events of human history; at times some indeed have come to the recognition of a Supreme Being, or even of a Father. This perception and recognition penetrates their lives with a profound religious sense.

Religions, however, that are bound up with an advanced culture have struggled to answer the same questions by means of more refined concepts and a more developed language. Thus in Hinduism, men contemplate the divine mystery and express it through an inexhaustible abundance of myths and through searching philosophical inquiry. They seek freedom from the anguish of our human condition either through ascetical practices or profound meditation or a flight to God with love and trust.

Again, Buddhism, in its various forms, realizes the radical insufficiency of this changeable world; it teaches a way by which men, in a devout and confident spirit, may be able either to acquire the state of perfect liberation, or attain, by their own efforts or through higher help, supreme illumination.

Likewise, other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing "ways," comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ "the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.(4)

The Church, therefore, exhorts her sons, that through dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions, carried out with prudence and love and in witness to the Christian faith and life, they recognize, preserve and promote the good things, spiritual and moral, as well as the socio-cultural values found among these men.

3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.

Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom.”

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), February 04, 2005.

The first part of Daniel's response was what I was looking for, but then he went off the rails and totally contradicted himself. The quote he provided was very interesting, however, even if he doesn't appear to agree with it and won't clarify.

Pat,

In my opinion, it is obvious you are looking for only the answer you want... -lacking this you continue to attempt to fabicrate and present it. The contradiction is of your own construct. ONLY if one is teaching false doctrine does one know this -therefore you reject the teaching instrument -the individual that persists in lies -if the lying stops they csan be accepted...

As has been stated all other 'religions' are not equal and not possessing of complete Truth. ONLY the Catholic Church -the one true Church that Christ founded has this...

Therefore, all other 'religions' are false. Catholic teaching requires respect and dignity of individuals NOT other religions... In your readings take note that any the other 'religions' are only merited for the portions of Truth they may bear witness to and teach...

Finally, again the question -which 'religion' do you practice?

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), February 04, 2005.

Michael G.,

Your message is compromised by both lack of humility and apparent compromise of Truth to fit your agenda of self...

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), February 04, 2005.

Nothing like a good saddle when I need to mount my High Horse in order to speak eye to eye with some people. 30 hands tall she is!! I named her Pharisee.

"Your message is compromised by both lack of humility and apparent compromise of Truth to fit your agenda of self..."

Daniel:

So you really like *MY* response! yes *I* thought *I* did a really great job too!

Did you like they way *I* said basically the same as the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the Declaration of Pope Paul VI, October 28, 1965 which Steve posted and with less words? *I* did notice that when Paul H and *I* responded with answers, Pat also responded. And did you notice on point #5 the start of the "funneling" effect *I* mentioned to Ian?

But before I get down from my high horse Pharisee can you explain what you mean by this statement you made to Pat.

"The contradiction is of your own construct. ONLY if one is teaching false doctrine does one know this -"

This kind of sounds like you know this because you teach false doctrine! But after I get down from my high horse Pharisee and check my hair in the mirror I will meditate on this to see if maybe you meant to say something else.

Well I sure hope you aren't the type of Christian that holds a grudge for life, because it's been suggested that I can be sarcastic at times. Well thats what people with grudges tell me at least.

Dis-mount Pharisee!

-- Michael G. (NoEmail@Nowhere.no), February 04, 2005.

Josh:

Daniel helped me refine the questions I am asking here; I'm 'fishing' for a better understanding of two things:

1. How do Catholics think they should consider other Religions?
2. How do Catholics think they should treat non-Catholics?

If by 'fishing' you suggest I have some hidden agenda, I can assure you I do not. I said above:

I was curious [about] the Catholic point of view. I assume some of that answer will fit in with my world view, and other parts will not, and I am comfortable with that.

Your response was a good summary of what I have learnt. The distinction between "the fullnes of Truth" and "part of the Truth" is clear. Thank you.

-- Pat Thompson (pat.thompson.45@gmail.com), February 04, 2005.

Daniel:

Yes, I agree whole heartedly that I am "looking for only the answer [I] want"; one I understand, one that is internally consistent.

See my posting directly above to Josh about my agenda, and what I have learned as part of this conversation.

You say Catholic teaching requires respect and dignity of individuals NOT other religions... but you also quote 2 John 9-11 if any non-Catholic comes to you do not receive him in your house or even greet him; for whoever greets him shares in his evil works but can't help me understand how these two statements can both be true.

I did another search in the Vatican documents for specifically the word "respect" and find many place where in contrast to whay you say, they suggest respect for the Jewish religion (using Judaism as an easy example).

- - - from: on the correct way to present the Jews and Judaism in preaching and catechesis in the Roman Catholic Church

III. Jewish Roots of Christianity

1. Jesus was and always remained a Jew...that he was trained in the [Jewish] law's observance. He extolled respect for it (cf. Mt 5:17-20) and invited obedience to it (cf. Mt 8:4)."

- - - from: Relations with the Jews

It is very difficult for a Catholic in good faith to realise that:

... c.) Contemporary Judaism is the present fruit of an evolution that has continued since the beginning of the Christian era, and it is still today a conviction that presents a real and original vitality that deserves our respect and attention just as much as others and indeed more.

But I fear we are at the end of this conversation between the two of us; you seem hesitant to explain your answer fully, you seem to contradict yourself, the Vatican, and apparently by extension Jesus's words, and I don't seem to be able to make myself any clearer to you either. Thank you for taking the time to respond, however, I do appreciate that.

-- Pat Thompson (pat.thompson.45@gmail.com), February 04, 2005.

italic off for GOOD this time!

-- Pat Thompson (pat.thompson.45@gmail.com), February 04, 2005.

Pat,

I see nothing contradictory between what you quote and what I state. Again, context is necessary -'respect' is not equal, respect is for only that which is Truth... This is why some religions may be more well regarded than some cults -ALL based upon Truth alone...

Michael G.,

What can I say ?????

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), February 08, 2005.

"What can I say?????"

Daniel;

You need not say anything,. For it is I who has used sarcasms!-- So for this please accept my sincerest apology.

But just for the record, when it comes to people attacking another’s religion. (regardless) Or when someone is trying to ask a question, which they may not really know what the question is and someone else appears to be stonewalling them or setting them up for later condemnation these things do inspire my not so nice side.

Sometimes we need to lead people with generalities before you can bring in them to the deeper realities otherwise to often they just back away all together.

But all in all, I believe our goals are the same it's just our paths are a little different.

Thank You!

-- Michael G. (NoEmail@Nowhere.no), February 08, 2005.