I AM THE ONE WHO YOU CALL PUNKER

I WANT TO ASK YOU IF YOU CONSIDER IT AS A SIN TO KISS AND I MEAN FRENCH KISS WITH SOMONE JUST FOR FUN?

-- PUNKER (GREG_PISAHOV@HOTMAIL.COM), February 02, 2005

Answers

Derpends on if your french or not...

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.,COM), February 02, 2005.

I didn't become a Christian Greg ( Punker, which ever you prefer, and I apologize if you don't like to be called that. ) until I was 30 years old. What I am trying to tell you is that I had a lot of illicit sex before then, all of which I am not proud of. There is nothing wrong with a french kiss, but a french kiss is more likely to sexually arouse someone than a plain kiss on the lips. If you are not aroused by it and you do not lust for that person to have sex with them, I wouldn't say it's a sin. But, if you're aroused or lust after them in your heart then it is a sin for you. The Bible makes it clear "if our heart condemns us not then we have confidence towards God", and we can be sure then that we are not sinning! Greg just ask God in your mind and you will know whether you are doing something wrong or not. Above all "asking God you will never go wrong" Take care and God Bless.

-- Al (rrrussh@juno.com), February 13, 2005.

Al?

You want SDQA to ask God in his mind to figure out if what he is doing is a sin? You're kidding, right? SDQA (greg) doesn't think that he is doing anything wrong with anything that he does. He doesn't believe in Christian values the way you (seem) to believe. So, you are telling the blind to lead themselves. Amazing.

You should read the stuff SDQA is involved in, in the Anarchy 2 Forum.

SDQA needs firm guidance by true believers in Christ. SDQA cannot do this on his own, unless he gets knocked off his horse as like what happened to Saul. I'll knock him off his horse, if you won't, Al.

.................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 13, 2005.

"The Bible makes it clear 'if our heart condemns us not then we have confidence towards God'"--Al.

Your interpretaion is incomplete. You have just made it easy for SDQA to go around frenching whoever he wishes, whenever he wishes. Al. French Kissing is sex yes? You wouldn't go french kiss your mother, no?

..........................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 13, 2005.

Sounds to me like some people need to try and lead others to God if they know all the facts!

-- Dan (tk6r2@yahoo.com), February 13, 2005.

dude,i am NOT the same person as PUNKER

me him and jerry are roommates and that's why we all have the same ip,but we aren't definately one and the same person

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 13, 2005.

kissing is sex? so you can't kiss someone till you guys are married?

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 13, 2005.

French kissing is sex, dude. A kiss on the cheek is generally not considered a sex act. Jesus was kissed by Judas. It was not a sex act.

...............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 13, 2005.

"French kissing is sex, dude. A kiss on the cheek is generally not considered a sex act. Jesus was kissed by Judas. It was not a sex act."

so a couple can't french kiss before they are married?

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.com), February 14, 2005.

Sure! it's called "fornication" and it happens a lot. But, that doesn't make it right. Maybe for you, it is not sinful. You probably will not see the error until it is too late. Playing around with people's emotions can have very bad consequences. For both involved, it is best not to "fool around".

.............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 14, 2005.

OMG

i am shocked

i don't know what to say

so couples can't french kiss till they are married? how can you even call them couples then?

this is...i don't have words for this...i really don't know what to say to you anymore...'kill yourself'N...yeah only that maybe...OMG incredible...incredible

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 14, 2005.

Of course you are "shocked", SDQA. I would not expect any different. There was a time when proper courtship was guided by moral values. Those days have changed for many in today's social acceptance. You are wanting an "anything goes" kind of deal for young adults. French kissing isn't the only act that can lead to that big sexual act. Anything can lead to it. Humans have that libido to contend with. Simple sight of the opposite sex can be a powerful thing. It can be lustful. The idea is to live in a practice of avoiding temptations. That is difficult, yes. So, why make it more difficult by placing yourself in situations that make it easy to sin? That is crazy. If you hang around a woman for too long, you will begin to find an attraction to her. That is the nature of human behavior. In time, that attraction can become a real relationship. You don't want to confuse that relation with sex. It is best to keep things as pure as possible. Yes, you would call that "old fashion". It would "shock" you to believe that anything outside abstinence was taboo, at one time. Ah! the problem with Anarchy. It allows for the moral decay of a society.

.........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 14, 2005.

OMG

Oh my gum?

i am shocked

I am dissappointed.

i don't know what to say

That is strange. You usually have something to say.

so couples can't french kiss till they are married? how can you even call them couples then?

So, in order to be called a "couple" they must engage in sexual activity? Where is that stated?

this is...i don't have words for this...i really don't know what to say to you anymore...'kill yourself'N...yeah only that maybe...OMG incredible...incredible

Why is it so incredible? One man, one woman.
What's with the violence? ('kill yourself')

................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 14, 2005.

YOU KNOW I NEVER WRITE HERE BUT THIS TIME I COULDNT LIEVE IT

ROD ARE YOU CRAZY?

NO FRENCH KISSING BEFORE MARRIAGE?

SO NO RELATIONSHIP BEFORE MARRIAGE?

ARE YOU INSANE?

ARE YOU A MORMONE OR SOMETHING?

WHAT KIND OF RELATIONSHIP IS THERE WITHOUT KISSING TELL ME YOU ****** ****?

WHAT KIND OF LOVE IS THERE WITHOUT INTIMANCY?

YOU THINK THAT ANY NOMAL PERSON WILL MARRY YOU BEFORE YOU HAVE EVEN KISSED?

MAN YOU ARE CRAZY

KISSING IS NOT SEX YOU *****

GET A LIFE

PATHETIC GUY

AND NOW WHEN I ALREADY START TO WRITE HERE I M GONNA SAY THIS

VIVE LA FRANCE!

WE HAVE THE HOTTEST GIRLS IN THE UNIVERSE

WE DIDNT TAKE PART IN THE WAR IN IRAQ

AND WE INVENTED FRENCH KISSING

SO WE ROCK!

YOU CAN KISS OUR *** AMERICA

-- THE ONE AND ONLY PUNKER (GREG_PISAHOV@HOTMAIL.COM), February 14, 2005.

AND KISSING IS NOT SEXUAL ACTIVITY YOU IDIOT

-- PUNKER (GREG_PISAHOV@HOTMAIL.COM), February 14, 2005.

Punker?

You were talking about "French Kissing". Stick to the subject.

...........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 14, 2005.

Oh, and stop using my email address for your pranks.

..........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 14, 2005.

YOU KNOW I NEVER WRITE HERE BUT THIS TIME I COULDNT LIEVE IT

You write here and there all the time. Don't lie.

ROD ARE YOU CRAZY?

Well, I must get down to your level, Punker.

NO FRENCH KISSING BEFORE MARRIAGE?

Right. You are smart.

SO NO RELATIONSHIP BEFORE MARRIAGE?

I never said that. You really should read more carefully.

ARE YOU INSANE?

Am I?

ARE YOU A MORMONE OR SOMETHING?

No. I'm not even a Mormon, either.

WHAT KIND OF RELATIONSHIP IS THERE WITHOUT KISSING TELL ME YOU ****** ****?

You were talking about French Kissing. People kiss, but not in a sexual context.

WHAT KIND OF LOVE IS THERE WITHOUT INTIMANCY?

That would be crazy. But, you are confusing the issues with physical action, not intimacy (intimancy, as you call it). Anyway, marriage is complete with the physical and emotional elements of sex.

YOU THINK THAT ANY NOMAL PERSON WILL MARRY YOU BEFORE YOU HAVE EVEN KISSED?

I've never met any "Nomal" person. Are they from Nome, Alaska? But, again, we were talking about "French Kissing". You are trying to confuse the issue. If a person abstains from sexual activity before marriage, I sure do hope his future mate is of the same belief.

MAN YOU ARE CRAZY

Am I?

KISSING IS NOT SEX YOU *****

It can be, you *****.

GET A LIFE

Get a wife!

PATHETIC GUY

Punk.

AND NOW WHEN I ALREADY START TO WRITE HERE I M GONNA SAY THIS VIVE LA FRANCE!

French Toast!

WE HAVE THE HOTTEST GIRLS IN THE UNIVERSE

Let's just hope that they all haven't been Frenched or worse.

WE DIDNT TAKE PART IN THE WAR IN IRAQ

You must have puckered at the other end. Fear and cowardice tends to do that.

AND WE INVENTED FRENCH KISSING

Like I said, you are probably good with that puckering.

SO WE ROCK!

Yes, stoned.

YOU CAN KISS OUR *** AMERICA

Nice. You are amazing.

AND KISSING IS NOT SEXUAL ACTIVITY YOU IDIOT

I'm sure that you can prove that by example.

..............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 14, 2005.

[Third Warning: Please repost with proper language.]

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 14, 2005.

Rod are a born again Christian? Al

-- Al (rrrussh@juno.com), February 14, 2005.

Not in the Protestant interpretation of "Born Again". I believe that God sent His only begotten Son to be Sacrificed for OUR Salvation when we accept Christ as Our Saviour.

Why do you ask? Are my posts that ambiguous?

.........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 14, 2005.

Al

When confronted with one who rejects the Gospels because they think them a myth, we must break them of their errors with their own "manifestos". The "manifestos", which brought them to rejecting Christ, are in error. Should we try to disprove their views of the Gospels, or should we show the errors of their "manifestos"? In time, when their errors are corrected, they will reach for the Gospels. SDQA is out to make the Scriptures a myth. I'm out to bring SDQA into the light.

Am I a Christian? My works will show what I am. My faith should, too.

............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 14, 2005.

but i will never accept your gospels nor your jesus...only if i would see it with my own eyes and maybe even then not...it all just doesn't make any sense to me...'you can't kiss a girl till you are married to her'...get a life dude...jesus is dead and so are your brains

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 14, 2005.

SDQA

Let's remember that man is a disobedient creation. If man were perfect, there would be no confusion. Man sins. You have this idea that sin is ok. All I'm saying is that when man sins, the consequences always make themselves evident.

You are the one who can't make sense of things. Perhaps it is your brain, and not mine, that needs some tweeking?

..............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 14, 2005.

You need to stop misquoting, SDQA:"'you can't kiss a girl till you are married to her'". The issue is sex. Kissing can be a non-sexual practice. But, in the context of your thread topic, it is a sexual act between two single people.

.........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 14, 2005.

dude...sex is when your penis comes in her vagina...not when your tongue comes in her mouth...

and every (normal) couple kisses this way...

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 14, 2005.

Your mission to post your graphic illustrations have materialized, SDQA. Would you please be a little more descrete with your descriptions. I think we know what sexual reprodution is.

.........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 14, 2005.

i wasen't so sure about that dude...

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 14, 2005.

Assuming Jesus existed, sdqa, then he is dead. There are many people who still question Jesus existence.You don't seem to question that.

In many cultures around the world, people did not kiss:Japan, Alaska, ...Kissing was introduced by Hollywood.

Also, prior to the 20th century kissing was not allowed in almost all cultures unless the person was married. Even if married, kissing in the mouth was not done in public bewteen males and females. That became a 20th century phenomenon with a lot od deadly consequences: AIDS, gonorrhea, syphilis, .....

But there have always been rebels as far as time can tell. King David had sex with a married woman, Solomon had over a thousand women, Dinah , Jacob's daughter had premarital sex, ...

Not believing in Jesus doesn't bother me. Most of the World doesn't.

Believing there is a God???? Well, if you believe dreams, then you can believe in God.

Why? When we dream, and the dream comes true, then we know something mysterious happened. Can you guess what that is?

(Hint: can you be at two different places at the same time?-If you cannot , then disregard my question. It doesn't apply to you.)

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 14, 2005.

sdqa,

But if you can accept that you can be at two places at the same time, then you can accept that humans have a physical aspect and a life-force which Catholics and Greeks call the soul (psyche=nefesh in Greek and Hebrew) but I call the spirit (pneuma=ruach in Greek and Hebrew).

[I see the soul as a spirit that has attained some of the physical characteristics of the body.]

Most of us have dreams that come true. Protestants will say that God or the Devil gave them the dream. But one must realizze that if the dream comes true, is because you were actually there. Your body never moved from the bed. Yet you moved into a futuristic space which does not exist.

Only the that part of us that can traverse time and space is the spirit.

If we believe that, then we know there is a God that every year is so happy to have the Rose Parade in Pasadena every January 1. It never rains on the Rose parade. It hasn't rained but oce in over 100 years. It has never rained since I moved to Los Angeles in 1979. It rains the day before or the day after.

I don't know if you have ever heard or watched the Rose parade. People from many countries participate. They cover designs with flowers, grasses,....

This year we had killer rains. It rained a lot before the Rose parade. That day it did not. Then it raained hard again the day after, killing many people close by.

I am mentioning this, sdqa, because of a dream I had on July 23, 2000. I was told it wasn't going to rain hard for 3 years. The killer rains did not appear until October 2003-2004 and 2004-2005. But for 2000-2001,2001-2002,and 2002-2003 it did not rain hard.

Was it coincidence?

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 14, 2005.

Jesus is not dead Elpidio--He lives forever., and so will those who have placed their trust in Him and have believed the gospel message that tells us this much. What else do you think is meant by the *Good News?* The good news/gospel is Christ is Risen.

-- (faith01@myway.com), February 14, 2005.

Yes, faith. He lives in you and me.But he doesn't live in the heart of one who doesn't believe.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 14, 2005.

Elpidio,

The body comes from the dust of the earth, the physical charaterisitics formed by the union of the sperm and egg. The spirit is formed and placed in man by God and is that part of us that communicates with God, it's the part of God that was imparted to Adam when God breathed on him and gave him life. The soul is formed by the spirit's union with the body, it is the mind, will and emotions. Like God, we are tripartite beings.

David

-- non-Catholic Christian (dlbowerman@yahoo.com), February 14, 2005.

Rod, and his website christian friend here. First let me stand corrected you are right french kissing is sex ( my wife corrected me ) let me also state that this is the first time I ever had a question about that thrown at me. To the one who said "are you kidding" just to let you know where I stand, just because we have the continual cleansing of the blood of Christ for those of us who have him Lord and Savior ( I confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh ), doesn't mean I condone any sin, nor ( or even more so ) is it a license for a Christian to sin. One I would appreciate ( a reproof enters more into a wise man than a fool ) whoever said that I took a scripture out of context would be so kind as to tell me what I did wrong and what their knowledge is of that scripture. Were you born with all knowledge? The answer is obviously no, so don't be so arrogant and act like everybody should or ought to have the same knowledge level as you. I am not angry at you over that, just a little upset since you assume something about an individual, yet you absolutely know nothing about them. I for one would lay my life down for you in a heartbeat, you probably think that is easy to say. I spent the whole night outside in hurricane Hugo on the deck of a nuclear sub keeping air in the ballast tanks in drydock in charleston, I don't know if I was too fascinated or stupid to be afraid, or the Lord kept me from fearing ( the latter I'm sure ) With everything I have been thru, I am weary of life and would rather be with the Lord. Also, my ability to think these days has been highly clouded by no fault of my own ( I HATE IT WHEN I HEAR THE TERM RECREATIONAL DRUG USE, BECAUSE I WOULD GIVE JUST ABOUT ANYTHING TO BE FREE OF WHAT SOME IDIOTS THINK IS RECREATION! ) narcotic pain medication the last 7 years for my back for 3 back surgeries. I am a wise man, but my judgement may be a little clouded these days because of what I mentioned. Just do me a big favor if you guys are my brothers in the Lord, please don't be like Job's so called friends who were useless physicians, cause believe me I know how Job felt. God Bless, a "TRUE FRIEND" not a useless physician.

-- Al (rrrussh@juno.com), February 14, 2005.

Hi Al.

I am sure that you love God and His Son. That is very obvious. My actions are not against you, but against your post. I try to read it from the point of view of a skeptic. There are some who will twist what we post, so we must say exactly what we mean. You have clarified what you meant. That matters greatly.

BTW, I didn't know it was you who sent the email. Now, I know. Thanks. Anyone who makes sacrifices to keep our nation safe deserves a handshake and our prayers. It's ok to be proud of our service men and women. Thanks, Al!

......................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 14, 2005.

well elpidio...i don't know exactly...

if we can be at 2 places at the same times,it could be only possible spiritually...or in spiritual places...phsycally it's impossible...

but where the proof that we do have a spirit/soul? and what makes you think so?

i also don't bother about believing in jesus...and i'm pretty much convinced that there is a higher force for sure...but what or how i don't know and i can't tell...

"Also, prior to the 20th century kissing was not allowed in almost all cultures unless the person was married. Even if married, kissing in the mouth was not done in public bewteen males and females. That became a 20th century phenomenon with a lot od deadly consequences: AIDS, gonorrhea, syphilis, .....

But there have always been rebels as far as time can tell. King David had sex with a married woman, Solomon had over a thousand women, Dinah , Jacob's daughter had premarital sex, ... "

[well people were also being married to someone just like that because their parents decided so...kissing in the mouth doesn't bring AIDS,syphilis or ghonnoreah...and about all this std fear...to cite benjamin franklin :"Those who would give up liberty for security deserve neither.”...there's nothing wrong with love or sex...(damn! this solomon must have been a cool guy)...i just can say one thing: I'M SO ****** HAPPY THAT I AIN'T CHRISTIAN!]-sdqa

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 15, 2005.

Mr. SDQA, Hi, allow me to tell you about my experience with God. I went to church below 11 years of age. They had taught us about Satan in church, and from what I observed in this world and the things that happened in my life ( my mom was an alkie, and I was treated like no child should ever be ) proved that Satan was real alright. But I saw this as a flaw in God, because how could a perfect God create or allow an imperfection as Satan. This kept me from coming to God. I was in alcohol rehab ( and of all times, Valentines day 16 years ago to this last one ), and the Navy Chaplain came to visit that day. The first thing he said was "Normally I have some sort of sermon prepared, but God laid it on my heart he said to leave the floor open for questions". Then I asked him how could God make an imperfect being such as Satan. He then stated how he wasn't and how he had his own free will to choose and how he corrupted himself. It was at that point, that I saw how perfect God really was. We all have a blinder or veil over our hearts when it comes to accepting by faith God and what his requirements are. When I saw that perfection at that moment, I said in my heart with all of my might, "I believe every last word in the Bible completely!" I spent the whole day pondering the perfection of the almighty. That night I got on my knees by my bedside and confessed I was a sinner, and I believed that Jesus Christ died on the cross for my sins ( just so you know, I hadn't been in church or read a Bible since I was 11 years old, nor had I talked to any Christian, most importantly I wasn't expecting to have anything at all happen after this prayer!!!! ) and asked him to save me. At that moment I felt the Holy Spirit of God take up residence ( I didn't know that it was the Holy Spirit, nor did I remember the Holy Spirit is part of God's Trinity ), I didn't know what had really transpired SDQA, but I knew for fact that I had just met a "REAL" person, and I knew that it was GOD! When a person believes in God the way he says you are to, then certain things take place, of which the Bible states what they are. So after I was saved when I read the Bible, I saw everything that it says happens to its believers, I sat back and was able to say to each of them, Wow, that happened to me! First, my mind which always seemed to sound like a reverberation chamber, now had become as peaceful as sitting by a lake at sunset when all is calm. I now had true love, patience, mercy, peace, forgiveness, faith to name a few in my being. When I went back to my Sub, many people said how they couldn't believe how much I changed, I said if you think I did it by myself, you are mistaken, and I told them the same thing. However, one guy would always say it when I was on the dive with him, and I would repeat it, and he would respond with, Here comes that Jesus thing. I hope he finds the truth before he dies. I have been thru alot, and I can show you God's power in my life for all that's happened. People only mock what they don't understand. Do you think Rod hates you, NOT! quite the contrary. Let me sum up the Bible for you, the whole law of the Bible is faith. So, they who do not believe by faith shall die without it, but they who believe by faith will live forever. Also they who are born once, shall die twice, once physically, and lastly, spiritually. But, unfortunately, whereas the physical body gets destroyed, the spiritual body has an attributes of God, it can't be destroyed, but it can experience torment forever. Those who are born twice, shall only die once. I would like to think you really want to know the truth, here's what I always propose to nonbelievers who have no faith ( this also demonstrates whether they really wanted to know the truth or not also ), If you really want to know ( you even said you believe in a higher force, which is your GOD consciousness, because our spirit comes from God, and with that it would be impossible for God to deny his own existance in the spirit he gives to you from himself! ) Ask God to help your non- belief and faith, he will do it if you are sincere. A frog brought to a slow boil in a pan doesn't realize he is headed for doom, nor does about %90+ of this planet. I've been on your road, and it is a lonely and miserable one. Take care, I hope you find the truth

-- Al (rrrussh@juno.com), February 15, 2005.

Thank you, Al. I hope that it has become obvious to SDQA that the people here are very concerned with SDQA. We only want the best for him. By opening his mind, his heart will also open to God's Light.

..........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 15, 2005.

but rod...do you have any idea what i felt when i red your post? that kissing(french kissing is kissing how every normal couple kisses...) is evil before marriage? what do you think i think now? you want me to take this serious? damnit you really think that this is evil?

man that's bullshit man...is god gonna send me to hell because i kissed with someone?

dude...i really feel sorry about you...just like you feel about me

come on man...think a little about those things...does it really make sense...and don't give me as answer:french kissing is sex,cos it isn't ask every sexuolog about that...you will find the same answer and don't give me as answer that the bible condemns fornication

if fornication is needed to make one love grow stronger,to bring people closer together,to make each other happy,to feel perfect in that one moment...well than i condemn the bible

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 15, 2005.

but rod...do you have any idea what i felt when i red your post?

Shocked.

that kissing(french kissing is kissing how every normal couple kisses...) is evil before marriage?

You stipulated "French Kissing", which is a form of sexual activity. Sexual activity before marriage is considered a sin. I didn't make the rules.

what do you think i think now?

I don't know. What do you think now?

you want me to take this serious?

Was I ever not serious about this? I'm guessing that you still don't take this serious enough.

damnit you really think that this is evil?

Like I said, it isn't evil within the True intentions of God's will. It is fine within the marriage, yes. But, like all sins, they are evilish.

man that's bullshit man...is god gonna send me to hell because i kissed with someone?

God sends no one to Hell. God provides a Salvation offering to those who accept it. A man would be wise to consider His offer of Salvation. I do believe that man is very capable of sending himself to Hell.

dude...i really feel sorry about you...just like you feel about me

How exactly do I feel about your situation. I feel sorry for very few people. Everyone has hope. It is the man who has no hope, I feel sorry for.

come on man...think a little about those things...does it really make sense...and don't give me as answer:french kissing is sex,cos it isn't ask every sexuolog about that...you will find the same answer and don't give me as answer that the bible condemns fornication

Look at it from an atheistic and humanistic point of view. Is it ok for a man to love more than one woman in a sexual way? Look at the consequences of such a practice. The woman, Christian or not, wants to be uniquely committed to one man, not many. Sexuality behavior, if not controlled, will lead to multiple partners. It happens, as I observe our society.

if fornication is needed to make one love grow stronger,to bring people closer together,to make each other happy,to feel perfect in that one moment...well than i condemn the bible

I don't understand what you meant to say in that comment.

So, you think that sexual gratification is the key to a stronger relationship with multiple people in order to have "love"? Let's call "sex"--"sex" and "love"--"love". But, remember, you reject the institution of Marriage, sacred or secular. Do you believe in committment to your mate as a permanent thing or as when your warranty runs out? If you believe in a true relationship that leads to a true committment, you should have no problems with Holy Matrimony. That's if you also believe in God.

...........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 15, 2005.

my only problem with holy matrimony is that it's 'holy'...

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 15, 2005.

That isn't a problem, SDQA. You say that you believe in God. Who would you want to have blessed your marriage, if not God? "Holy" means that it has been set aside for God or by God. Do you still have a problem with "Holy" Matrimony?

............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 15, 2005.

Do you want a woman who will cling to you and only you? Do you want a woman who you will love as your own flesh? Do you want a woman who you can trust will be with you until your final days? Do you want a woman who will forgive you when you really mess things up? Do you want a woman who will remain faithful and committed to your marriage? Do you want a woman who will French Kiss you and only you because all sexual intimacies are only in the marriage?

A real woman is one who has faith in God and His Will. But, it takes both partners to live in faith.

............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 15, 2005.

'That isn't a problem, SDQA. You say that you believe in God. Who would you want to have blessed your marriage, if not God? "Holy" means that it has been set aside for God or by God. Do you still have a problem with "Holy" Matrimony?'

i don't believe in a god how he is described in the bible...

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 15, 2005.

"Do you want a woman who will cling to you and only you? Do you want a woman who you will love as your own flesh? Do you want a woman who you can trust will be with you until your final days? Do you want a woman who will forgive you when you really mess things up? Do you want a woman who will remain faithful and committed to your marriage? Do you want a woman who will French Kiss you and only you because all sexual intimacies are only in the marriage?"

[yeah man,but we don't need necesarraliy marriage for this...but i certainly woulnd't want a women who'd wait till marriage to kiss me...]-sdqa

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 15, 2005.

Yes, you can condem the Bible sdqa. Many people think the opposite is true: the Bible condemns you.

The Bible doesn't condem people, sdqa. The Bible mentions people who wrestled with ideas of what is licit and illicit. What is good (righteous) and bad (unrighteous).

Later Christians dealt with ideas not only of purity but witha more refined idea of what sin is.

Catholics went as far of classifying sins as mortal, venial,....

The reason I beieve in Jesus is not because I think he is God. I don't think he is. I believe in him because he showed that he cared for people.

Jesus was one of those reactionaries that rebel against the sexual mores of his generation.

His generation believed that demons created diseases, that being poor was a curse from God,...women were easily demon possessed,...being sick with an infirmity a curse,...losing your virginity being stoned,....

He protected the woman caught in adultery, he cared for the blind, the deaf, the skin diseased,...he cared for widows, orphans,....

In caring, Jesus showed that the good in humanity will get us closer to God.

He used to say, even sinners help those they know....

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 15, 2005.

Yes, David,

the soul in judaism is the combination of matter with the spirit. your quote: The soul is formed by the spirit's union with the body, it is the mind, will and emotions."

From Blue Bible.

Gen 2:7 And YHWH God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

But I doubt your second premise. Like God, we are tripartite beings.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 15, 2005.

Why is a kiss so crucial? How did kissing become a physical manifestation of love?

...............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 15, 2005.

"The reason I beieve in Jesus is not because I think he is God. I don't think he is. I believe in him because he showed that he cared for people.

Jesus was one of those reactionaries that rebel against the sexual mores of his generation.

His generation believed that demons created diseases, that being poor was a curse from God,...women were easily demon possessed,...being sick with an infirmity a curse,...losing your virginity being stoned,....

He protected the woman caught in adultery, he cared for the blind, the deaf, the skin diseased,...he cared for widows, orphans,....

In caring, Jesus showed that the good in humanity will get us closer to God.

He used to say, even sinners help those they know.... "

[i would perfectly agree with you if jesus wasen't saying that he is the son of god,that you have to believe in him to be saved...and some other dogmatic ****...what is your interpretation/explanation of those things elpidio?]-sdqa

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 15, 2005.

What would happen if you were to perceive Jesus through a sense of Social Awareness? Could all of His teachings make sense to you? What would it then mean to you His teaching?"The Kingdom of God is in each on of you". As an Anarchist, would it make sense that His Children are self-governing, yet each are guided by God? I mean. This is a dangerous view, but it is a start. No longer is every person under the thumb of an earthly tyrant, but instead under the Grace of God. Every soul is equal in His offer of Salvation, even when every man is not equal in the context of worldly existence. Knowing that any oppression that man suffers is only temporary because our real existence is eternal with God. You could understand Jesus in such a way. At least, you could begin with a Gnostic understanding and build your understanding from there. The problem, for you, is that you have already condemned the Scriptures and the Church. But, eventually, you will have to come to learning about the Word. You should at least try to be a little more open to the Scriptures.

..............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 15, 2005.

You stipulated "French Kissing", which is a form of sexual activity. Sexual activity before marriage is considered a sin. I didn't make the rules.

[but you only agree with this because you think that it comes from god...there is nothing wrong with kissing dude! yes religion destroys your intelligence,it's impossible that all those millions of christians all agree with everything that is said in the bible because they think that way also,they do think that way but only because they think it comes from someone on who's wisdom is supreme and they can rely on blindly...i'm sure that if it was said in the bible that homosexuality or fornication were right that you would agree on it]-sdqa

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 15, 2005.

SDQA

You make many assumptions. Do you know what it is like to be married for 10 years and then to suddenly find yourself abandoned by your spouse? Such a person re-anylizes everything. He goes and searches for answers. He looks at the reasons why things went wrong. Secularism failed him. Self-autonomy fooled him. A marriage without guidance ruined him. Did you really believe that such a person would blindly follow and believe without questioning or testing? There are Truths in life. It is so funny that the Truth was there in the Scriptures the whole time. But, most importantly, the Truth only works when the believer practices those teachings.

...........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 15, 2005.

A Catholic never divorces, never. But, then, it happens. He has hit the ground solidly hard. He has one of two choices: rot or pull himself up.

.........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 15, 2005.

analyzes(?) I can't spell. Jim!

..........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 15, 2005.

You mentioned homosexuality. Well, let's not use the Bible as a reference. Think about it. How can survival of the species exist in a homosexual culture? Bible or no Bible, the truth is that homosexuality is a dead end, pun or no pun.

..............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 15, 2005.

Is it in our nature for our human spicies to survive? If so, how does that happen? It isn't an issue of arbitrary birth because that is just on part of the equation. To survive, we must also thrive. The family nucleus is crucial for our survival, both in the small and large picture of our human existence.So, where is the model or how have we come to understand the model of our survival? How does the Bible contradict our human nature to live? It doesn't. It actually shows God's Will for our living if we have eyes to see and ears to hear.

Where have you heard that before?

..........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 15, 2005.

not everyone is gay...not everyone has to reproduce...

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 15, 2005.

do you really want me to believe that french kissing before marriage is wrong?

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 15, 2005.

Rod?

--Your seplling looks ok to me.

-- Jim (furst@flash.net), February 15, 2005.

Ohkaee! Eye wuz war-eed dat eye wood Miss Spel sumting. Dat wuz closed!

........................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 15, 2005.

Well, sdqa, [i would perfectly agree with you if jesus wasen't saying that he is the son of god,that you have to believe in him to be saved...and some other dogmatic ****...what is your interpretation/explanation of those things elpidio?]-sdqa

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 15, 2005.

In the oldest Gospel ,Mark , sdqa, Jesus usually refers to himself as the Son of Man, not the Son of God.Even he does the same in Mathew.

From Blue Bible. Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. Mat 8:20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air [have] nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay [his] head.

Mat 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Mat 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him].

Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.

Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

Mat 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Mat 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

Mat 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

Mat 17:22 And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said unto them, The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men:

Mat 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Mat 26:2 Ye know that after two days is [the feast of] the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

Mat 26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

Mat 26:45 Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take [your] rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mar 2:10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)

Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Mar 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and [of] the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

Mar 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Mar 9:9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.

Mar 9:12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

Mar 9:31 For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.

Mar 10:33 [Saying], Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chief priests, and unto the scribes; and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the Gentiles:

Mar 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

So much for Son of God, sdqa.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 15, 2005.

SDQA, I remember yo mentioning King David and King Solomon. People always seem to leave out the facts here and that is they paid a big price for thier sexual sins. King David is also taken out of context, in that I can't tell you how many times I hear about how he was a man after God's heart ( they were implying that his heart was like God's ), what that means is King David ( like a man chasing a woman to gain her love or approval ) was trying to gain God's favor by doing that which was righteous in God's sight. When King David had Uriah killed to hide his adultery with Uriah's wife God allowed thier child to die, and then God caused problems within David's own house ( many of sexual nature ) and he also lost his throne for awhile. Many pagan wives caused Solomon to sin. Also back to your question about whether or not you are going to hell over french kissing, SDQA we are all hell bound at birth. So even if you didn't sin at all during your lifetime, just being born we are separated from God and therefore destined there. The thing that more sins give you is more punishment, especially if people have taken the time to inform you what the truth is. We are all born under the law of the Old Testament in the Bible, and in all those laws if we break it in just one law ( even thinking it is a sin under the law, because that is where sin comes from, the heart/soul ) we are guilty of all and are lawbreakers. The law was given to show that everyone is guilty of sin and no one can be made righteous with God under it. It also shows ( since the animal sacrifices were endless and expensive ) that there would never be enough sacrifices to make atonement for our sins, and the moment the sacrifice was completed that individual really had the same stance with God as before it happened. Since the offence was of man it had to be a man to THE SACRIFICE. Since we are dealing with sins past, present, and future only a God in the form of a sinless man could accomplish this. Under ancient customs for a Testament to allow for a new one to be created, the Testator ( the person who gave the ruling, Law, or whatever ) had to pass away. By Jesus dying it allowed for His New Testament to be given, but since he was a Resurrected God, not only did His death allow for a New Testament, but it allowed the Old Testament to stay in force. The Bible talks about the great land and water dinosaurs in the book of Job, people again will tell you it's talking about a hippo and an alligator. Well a hippo's tail how big is it? It's small and curly the one mentioned with Behemoth is as big as a cedar tree! He also states that he can take in the river Jordan and his bones are as bronze. Leviathan mentioned here ( since I am a submariner ) causes the deep to be hoary ( white from cavitation ) no alligator leaves a wake behind it! Also, God talks about huge, strong scales that no one can part, he is comely ( very huge ), plus key point here only his maker ( God ) can approach him with his sword. Shall one not be cast down at the sight of him. The belcher springs we found in the ocean only in the last 20 years or so, God has walked in them, they didn't have DSRV's 4000 to 6500 years ago. No one knew that lightening had a defined path then, it's in Job! Also ther are some metaphors in the Bible of that which is physical, that is figurative of that which is Spiritual. Do you know why the Old Testament put so much emphasis on emphasis on LEPROSY? First let me explain a little about it . It a disease that slowly destroys the nerve endings, and usually starts at your extremities then it progresses to your senses, and body functions. Without your nerves feeling any pain you will hurt yourself and not know it, and the final stage is death due to nerve destruction. Well, just as LEPROSY is to our nerves SDQA, so is the effects of sin to our sense of morallity. So the more we sin, the less we are able to sense whether we are being moral or not nad just like leprosy the end is death. It's like this SDQA, we are God reps here on Earth, and if you can't figure out ( No one can get saved unless the Spirit bids them ) that God is trying to win you over, there is not much else we can tell you ( and for the likes of me why are you so caught up or worried about the issue of french kissing, what about dying without Jesus Christ instead ), all we can do is pray for you. here is another thing I wrote elsewhereEverything everyone has said here is right on the money. I do wonder though if some are not working for Satan either deliberately or unconciously. I know there are some Christian groups ( or so they claim ) who blantantly yell things like "Die in hell homo" and many other things, but thier approach is all wrong. Of the many things I know about the Lord, two stand out here. One is that when Jesus spoke to the woman at the well all he said to her was "Who condemns you?" and she said "No man", and he responded by saying "Go and sin no more". He didn't say go and commit more adultery, but also notice what she responded with "NO MAN!". She knew that God would condemn her if she didn't repent, and she knew he was the Son of God. The other one is, Jesus doesn't go where he isn't wanted. Jesus gave up on going back to places who wanted nothing more to do with him. Most people have heard the Gospel at least once country, so why go where the people who have already have heard the message, and don't want to hear it. The fact that this group call themselves the pink angels and zeroed in on Christians trying to give a message tells me they all have heard the message. If Jesus didn't go where he was wanted, neither should we. Don't get me wrong, we have both the right to freedom of speech and freedom of religion. I spent almost 20 years in the military in defence of that right. I like what the one guy in this forum said, the end is near. Yes, we are coming to a close. The technology for the mask of the beast is here. Matthew chapter 24 is being fullfilled. How many of you have looked at II Timothy chapter 3? It describes this generation of people to a tee. Also we should all be praying for the Lords return. Isn't it ironic though, our life span is typically 70 to 80 years, and when we get anything that threatens our health we run right to the doctors to take care of our physical ailments, and are fearful of dying ( the unsaved that is ). But when it comes to our spiritual health, we are afraid to come to the Doctor The Lord Jesus Christ for our spiritual healing so that our spititual body will not die, and many scoff at that idea. Have you noticed how much emphasis was placed on Leprosy in the old testament, you know why? Leprosy was a physical metaphor ( Leprosy slowy kills all nerve endings in your body, which deadens your sense of pain to the point that you injure yourself without knowing it ) of that which is Spiritual, Leprosy is to our nerves, as sin is to our morality! Well, peace in Israel is a key point to end of times, and keep an eye on who from the European community brokers the deal or deals, he is likely to be the antichrist. Stay in prayer about our rights to free speech and religion, remember Christ is on the Throne in Heaven, nothing that is happening is taking him by surprise, and no weapon formed shall prosper against us brothers and sisters in the Lord. I think the best thing we can do as Christians, is do like the Lord ( they already know thier sinning and so does the other %100 of America, including myself when I do ) treat them with kindness and love to show them we are who we say we are, that is what will win them over. They are no different than a liar, a cheat, thief, murderer, and so on, because what does the Bible say, They who live by the law, shall die by it, and thay who are under the law, are guilty of it, whether they break it by one point, or all ( for that matter just being born! ) I have never called anyone a sinner, or pointed out a particular sin, I just tried to walk with Jesus in his power and win people to God. None the less brothers and sisters in Christ keep watching the Rapture is not far off ( even if it may be 100 years from now, that is soon ) we live in exciting times to be a Christian, and if we see the Rapture we are "PRIVELAGED! GOD BLESS

-- Al (rrrussh@juno.com), February 15, 2005.

so you think that the other gospels are faudelent elpidio?

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 16, 2005.

There is no other "gospels", except those books in the New Testament. John was the writer of Revelation, and that is what it is, the end of God's written Prophecy. He makes it clear at the end of it that it is complete, with nothing more to add except those individuals who ( obviously ignoring this scripture ) think that there can be additional books written after this time. oh, there are books written after this time, but they are not from, or of God. Only the god whom I refer to as little g, tries to make others believe in other gospels. People always try to do like Adam and Eve did, hide from God. When God asked Adam and Eve where are you. He wasn't asking physically, he knew where they were in that respect. God wanted to know where he now stood with them since thier sin. Adam gave his life for his bride, think about it, she sinned 1st, he's still perfect, and he knew she would now die. He loved her with a perfect love, and decided he would become as her, and die with her. Also look at Abraham, what do you have here with regards to his son's life as a sacrifice? He is ready to do the sacrifice and everybody says god caught the ram in the thicket, after Abraham said God would provide it. This is the most open Prophetic example that God would send his son Jesus Christ to be an Offering. Abraham did not say God would provide a lamb to his son, Abraham said that God will Provide His own self as a Lamb!!!! The item caught in the thicket is a ram, not a lamb. Reread it for what it says God will Provide Himself as a sacrificial Lamb! We are not smarter than God, and he knows language better than us and there is no mistake about what's said

-- Al (rrrussh@juno.com), February 16, 2005.

i meant the gospels of matthew,luke and john...

yes there are other gospels,the gospel of thomas for example

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 16, 2005.

Mark is legit, sdqa. Mathew is based on Mark and related to Thomas. He divides his group into 5 sections.I find Thomas also connected to Mark and Mathew.

Luke sees things from a Gentile perspective. So sections that denigrate Gentiles or medical doctors(Luke was one) were edited out.He uses Mathew and Mark for support.

John has too been edited out of context. The last chapter, 21, is Luke's catch of fish. Does, something that ocureed early on is now made part of Jesus post resurrection. Jesus entrance into Jerusalem is put first. This makes then most of Jesus miracles to occur in Jerusalem instead of Galilee. The miracles in John are also found in Mark except for the raising of Lazarus and the water made into wine. Thus, once in order, John is based on Mark. It makes sense, since Mark''s other name is John. Long additions were made , one when Jesus has the last supper. This is not from Jesus but from the Church as they understoood him.

There have been findings of Gospels , one of which preserves another earlier form of John.

This has made me to reassess my understanding of Jesus , not as divine, but as a human being , who , instead of choosing to ignore the suffering in this world, chose to do something about it.

Was that the plan Gof YHWH had for Jesus? I think so.

We alll have a plan. Some major like preaching, some minor as to have a family. But we all have a purpose for this life.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 16, 2005.

if it is a sex act, surely in a wedding ceremony the priest invites the bride and groom to perform a sex act in front of the congregation?

nothing wrong with expressing love, like, lust or any variant thereof for anyone so long as noone gets hurt.. STD are called Sexually Transmitted Diseases for a reason, they're not Offending Christian Mores Diseases.

i feel sorry for the poor kids who have their first kiss/dribbling session/hint of sexuality in front of their entire families.

you're all insane :D

-- scaryboots (scaryboots@hotmail.com), February 20, 2005.

The real issue here is "French Kissing". A kiss on the cheek or on the lips does not necessarily mean "sex". It depends on the motives for the kiss. "French Kissing" is a sexual act. Is it ok for a man's wife to "French Kiss" the neighbor? Is it ok for the husband to kiss his neighbor's wife on the lips? STD's is not the only reason to restrict one's kissing habits. It also has its psychological effects/affects.

...............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 21, 2005.