Traditional Catholics verses Novus Ordo Catholics.

Ah, yes--with dis-unity like this--who needs reform?

I'd say that the Traditional Catholics are almost like Protestants....they recognize the apostacy--they just can't seem to break away completely....sad : (

-- (faith01@myway.com), February 07, 2005

Answers

*bump*

-- (faith01@myway.com), February 07, 2005.

I think thr name of th eboard is fixed. And why rename?

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), February 07, 2005.

Ha! "Traditional Catholics are like Protestants" WHAT A HOOT! I wonder what they'd say about that.

Let's see, they pray to Mary; they believe in Purgatory; they believe in salvation by faith AND works; they believe in the doctrine of "the communion of saints." Oh, yes, Faith, I see what you mean!! LOL!!

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), February 07, 2005.

Whoops, I forgot the big one -- TRANSUBSTANTIATION!

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), February 07, 2005.

Zarove,

faith realizes that not that many Protestants post here.

But is understandable. Almost every Evangelical , born again,or Pentecostal Protestant is trying to covert the World. So each one has already opened up a forum for that purpose. Christians like myself are not welcome, neither are Catholics.

But Catholic also do the same to Protestants.

But I think our title suit us now.

If one were Jesus shoes, would he ban, delete, reject, censor, ...what other Christians and other religionists and non- religionists have to say?

After all he said to his disciples when they compain of other people preaching in Jesus name: Mar 9:38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

Mar 9:39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

Mar 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

Mar 9:41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

That is the type of Spirit I am trying to bring here, Zarove.

A way for us to live like Christ, not trying to offend each other.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 07, 2005.

Well, let's see--

On the other hand, they reject the pope, understand that Marian apparitions (for the most part) are demonic, and they can see all the false doctrines creeping in to the church.

Their only problem is that they only recognize the problem from the time of Vatican II on--and can't seem to grasp that the trouble started so long before that!

I mean--what about that barbaric middle age history?? Is it or is it not true that popes murdered each other in order to obtain that papal throne?

-- (faith01@myway.com), February 07, 2005.

OIDDLY Gail , Im late of the Chruhc of Christ and as restrationist as you get. I reject "By Faith Alone" and most reofrm thought, beleive int eh nessesity of obedience, an Baptism, so what do you call me?

The traditionalists may end up forming ther own Chruhc, similar ot Anglicans but retainign all the Catholci trappigns and not changign over time, sicne change is bad to them.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), February 07, 2005.

Oh Elpidio--

You don't know the heart of Jesus. You reject Him as He really is.

He never compromised God's truth to be accepting of heretics.

These verses you used confirm that those people who do things in His name are actually His--

Mark 9:38-41

“Teacher,” said John, “we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”

“Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us. I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.

Our faith is evidenced by what we do.....

This is a far cry from thinking that Jesus was saying to let anything go...let anyone do and say whatever he wants--let him trash the faith and let him lie about me! I don't think so....

-- (faith01@myway.com), February 07, 2005.

ELP- I tend ot agree, this is a fairly open board for all Christains, not jst pentacostals/baptosts/protestants/catholics/Restorationists/ect...

Thus the meltign pot has come!

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), February 07, 2005.

Not everyone who claims the name of Christ is actually a Christian-- Zarove.

And as far as this board goes--there isn't a whole lot of asking Jesus anything!

-- (faith01@myway.com), February 07, 2005.

Zarove, you are noble-hearted truth-seeker, who is fair-minded, balanced, and always kind . . . a "peacemaker". As to denominational linkage, it is quite clear that you are a "follower of Christ," and I have no doubt that you will go where He leads.

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), February 07, 2005.

Faith- I dont see how you can detemine he stat of anothers soul.

Fail- I grw up to oppose Denominations, thta muhc sticks with me, I do beeliv ein Unity of all beleivers, but likewise in fair representation and objetive study.

Thnks for the kind words though.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), February 07, 2005.

Did I determine the state of someone's soul Zarove?

I don't think so..

I was merely pointing out that this board has become the devil's playground and that there is absolutely no honor towards Jesus anymore--not here.

So why not change the name of the board?

-- (faith01@myway.com), February 07, 2005.

I propose we find a non-sectarian, pleasant-sounding name, like "jake's place."

-- jake (j@k.e), February 07, 2005.

That would work.

We could all come wearing masks....just like you.

-- (faith01@myway.com), February 07, 2005.

Faith.

You are obviously blind to things. We speak of God and His Son. We do not throw people away because of their beliefs or lack of faith in God. If anything, our attempts and motives are to teach those who are lost. Perhaps you should isolate your concerns on the positive and not on collecting stones.

If it were up to your, the Pharisees would have been banned, tied, and burnt by now.

............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 07, 2005.

Whose idea is it to throw people away--or ban or delete?? [with the exception of the trash being posted the other day]...

I just recommended a name change..out of respect for Jesus--since there is little reflection of Him here on this board anymore.

-- (faith01@myway.com), February 07, 2005.

Faith, when the board started it was to MOCK Jesus Christ.Thats why its named "Ask Jesus".

See, a man used the Scren name "Jesus Christ" and procceeded to denegrate our Lord and blaspheme him, all while answering queatsiksn from mockers.

Later, it was clane dup and became a gaven fr Christains. ( The Lord works in Mysterious ays.) Much liek ocVoltaires hous ebeign urned into a Bible manufacturer, this baord has becoe a palce to Honour our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

Unliek mst baords, it snot sectarian, os all veiws are wlecomed here. This is what your ry comlaing abut, sicn you wantto forc the Cahtolcis to be slent and impose the standards of your veiw. If these arent met, Jesus isnt talked baotu or Honorued.

But the relaity is almost every thread mentioend Jeus in some way and often are baotu him, God, and the CHurhc. Look at what we relay discuss, and tlel me, topicwise, how its different form most Christan boards?

Come let us be reaosnable. The name is estalbished, and we discuss and Honour our Lord dialy here, while in Cyber-fellowship, so I see no reaosn to object.

In closing, I have for you a quote form the Bard, which I think suits you.

Mythinks the lady Doth Protest too much.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), February 07, 2005.

I just recommended a name change..out of respect for Jesus--since there is little reflection of Him here on this board anymore.

I agree. It hardly serves the Holy Name well to have It slapped onto a forum like this.

-- jake (j@k.e), February 07, 2005.

Then, obviously Jake, we have no one else to blame, but the ones who post here. I post here in defense of God, Jesus Christ, and His Church. I do believe that Jesus sat and ate with the worse kind. So, if this forum is of ilrepute, I guess that some of us are here for the right reasons. You know; we can show a little light rather than to curse the darkness.

.............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 07, 2005.

Well, faith and Jake,

Jesus took those the religious authorities rejected as impure: fishermen. tax collectors, zeolots,...prostitutes, the sick,...the poor, the infirm,...the blind,...the (fill in the blank)....

Jesus dealt with all types of questions: political, messianic, Law, sex, marriage, Gentiles, foods,.....

This is the right title.

Like Zarove said: Th Lord Works in Mysterious ways.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 07, 2005.

I don't like the title, but for reasons no one has mentioned. There is no one here who can "speak for Jesus." The title implies that Jesus is here just waiting to answer questions posed.

It is a hodge-podge of differing beliefs and there's not a thing wrong with that. It should be a place where all are welcome, as long as the rules are followed.

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), February 07, 2005.

The name of the forum does not give meaning to the forum. The information found in the forum gives meaning to its name. To the believer, the name Jesus has already been established. To "ask" is to pray.

.............................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 07, 2005.

Yes, Gail, I too did not like the name. I thought it was arrogance to have such a name for this forum. I spoke with David and the first moderator about the name and having it changed. It seemed like things were already set in stone. That would have been the best time to have a name change, but it wasn't and things just evolved from then on. I guess that my point is that the contents of this forum will convey the real meaning of Jesus, so the arrogance of the forum name would become absent. "Ask Jesus" could have a humble feel for searching out the truth. Yes, that's a very optimistic view. It could happen over time.

....................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 07, 2005.

How about "Fly to Jesus" -- you know that Chris Rice song ? (I love that guy)

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), February 08, 2005.

Rod

"we can show a little light rather than to curse the darkness"

lovely.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), February 08, 2005.

The Bible is Jesus' Word and can speak for Him. But little attention is paid to what the Bible actually reveals--and rather--people argue about what the murderous hierarchy of the Roman Catholic religion says.

And Zarove--I believe this particular board was named by David and started after he was banned from the Catholic forum. It was started in defense of Jesus and His Word--in defense of the Catholic forums misinterpretations..... I think David was making a very clear statement when he named his board--*Aski Jesus* and he intended for this forum to be biblically based and defended.

-- (faith01@myway.com), February 08, 2005.

The Bible is Jesus' Word and can speak for Him. But little attention is paid to what the Bible actually reveals--and rather--people argue about what the murderous hierarchy of the Roman Catholic religion says.

NO, people give their interpretations of the Bible. People then argue about those interpretations.

And Zarove--I believe this particular board was named by David and started after he was banned from the Catholic forum. It was started in defense of Jesus and His Word--in defense of the Catholic forums misinterpretations..... I think David was making a very clear statement when he named his board--*Aski Jesus* and he intended for this forum to be biblically based and defended.

This forum was not started by David. David took it over, though.

.............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 08, 2005.

Faith

if Elpidio has the Keys to this Kingdom, and Elpidio and the other co-moderators have the power to loose and bind, i suggest that we respect that obvious authority by succession and fall in line. that would be the sensible thing to do.

to hark back to the days of old is just nostalgic traditionalism.

;-))

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), February 08, 2005.

....and to demand a name change is to erroneously assume that we all have the keys.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), February 08, 2005.

Whatever!

All I know is that this board has lost its appeal for me.

I cannot post one thing without being attacked from every direction.

I don't think David intended for biblical Christians to be squeezed out, and for heresy--of Catholic nature in particular--to over run his forum.

He hesitated a great deal about who would moderate the board--and only trusted me because of my similar defense of Scripture to his-- but after I quit--he had little choice...

I want to preserve the board the way David would want it to be. It took Elpidio days to delete the trash that was overtaking the board-- and he has still not removed those bogus posts designed to cause trouble. He is a false prophet and he rejects Jesus Christ is our God and Savior---so yes, I'm kind of annoyed!

-- (faith01@myway.com), February 08, 2005.

1: dAVID APPOINTED eLP.

2: Elp has yet to relenquish the pasword to me, but I am moderator, so he should.

3: We discuss the Bible a great deal Faith, and not all o us ( Myself included,a nd Kevin. You cannot ogiclaly call Kevin a Non-Bibld beleiver. And Luke. Ect...) Are Catholic. The fact is, even though th emajority are Catholic, not all of us are, and we have an pen forum for discussion.

Your veiws arent squeased out, they ar ewlecomed here. And in some occassion, I agree with you, just nto all.

What you mean is, peopel who agre with you on what you think the Bible says. if we disahree on, say, the Rapture theory, we arent Bibleical Christains to you because rto you its a plain teahcing. However, we all have our reasons, do we not? Mine are firmly rooted in scripture.( In this case, in the abscence of a clear and plain "The rapture will occure" sttement.)

Bilucal veiws are often delivered here.

4: Not everyone defends Catholisism. I only defend it when its misrepresented, or when they have vlaid points. I also defended the Chruhc of christ recenly when it was attacked, truth above all, thats my Motto.

5: Everyone here beleives in the Bible and God and Jesus Christ, so they aren't being wholly removed form him.

6: David did not start this board, he assumed contorle form another Christain awho assumed contorle of it after the origiona founder got bored with his littel joke. If you want I will link you to a website that ontoans te origiosl Ask Jesus messages, and let you compare the evil blasphemies and heresies of current posters withte origional board and then let you see in contrast.

7: If you want Biblial veiws as you see then defended, then do so. Jut dont misrepresent othersbeelifs while ding it.And dont think peoel are nessesiarly unbiblical for disagreeing with you. Least of all peopel liek myself, Kevin, and Luke.

8: To call Cahtolisism Heresey assumes you are Orthodoxy, Likewise, since you dotn agree with my veiws on the Bible, or Kdevins, or Lukes, then we must to yo also be Heretics. However, this asumes your veiw is the standard that we must all lend ascent to. This si not so, least of all on an open forum.

9: all thuis said, Faith, we appriciae yor psost and the board wodnt be the same without you, so lets not cause hard feelings OK?

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), February 08, 2005.

Faith, what are you talking about?

I engage with you with a well learned tone that you taught me. If you are nice, I'll be nice. If you are offensive, I'm offensive. Look at the way you have described this forum. Look at the way you are talking down to Catholics. That is annoying. The truth may hurt, but in the long run that's what this forum is all about.

Be nice.

The Catholics in this forum are not over running it. The percentage of Catholics here have not condemned you, but you have done a great job of condemning them. When was the last time anyone told you that your church is the devil's? Were they Catholic?

When David gets back, his forum shall still be his forum. If he so chooses to ban me, fine. Personally, I view this forum as part of me, as I'm sure other posters may have the same senitments.

.................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 08, 2005.

It sounds to me that you would find remedy to this problem by excommunicating a few heretics, Faith.

........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 08, 2005.

"I want to preserve the board the way David would want it to be. It took Elpidio days to delete the trash that was overtaking the board-- and he has still not removed those bogus posts designed to cause trouble. He is a false prophet and he rejects Jesus Christ is our God and Savior---so yes, I'm kind of annoyed! "--Faith.

Are you gonna go against David's wishes, Faith. It was David who selected Elpidio for the job. So, you should respect David's directives. You gave up the moderatorship, Faith. Now, you want it back? How can the Catholics trust that you won't go deleting or banning them? What about those other posters seeking answers?

...........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 08, 2005.

How do you propose to "preserve" this forum, Faith. If you can't do it as a regular poster, how will you as a moderator with the "keys"?

Will you go and delete what you perceive as being unacceptible to your view of Christianity? It must be obvious to all that you believe yourself to be infallible to interpreting Scriptures. Wow!

............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 08, 2005.

Remember rod--

I never said anything about wanting to delete anyone [who is a legitamate poster]--or that I wanted to be moderator again. Those are your words....

I was just pointing out that the name of this forum does not apply anymore. It should be changed to the "Catholic Forum II"--or something to that effect....

-- (faith01@myway.com), February 08, 2005.

I remember quite well, Faith:

"rod,

If I were still moderating, it would be your posts that get deleted.

You are such an accuser and attacker on a personal level--and I told you that that is not allowed here. For some reason, you go undetered.

Here, you lie again and claim that I conceded to my error and then left.

You must realize that everything is still there to be read--hm?"

-- (faith01@myway.com), December 17, 2004.

You haven't answered the question, Faith. How would your preserve this forum?

............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 08, 2005.

Remember this from earlier in this thread:

"If it were up to your, the Pharisees would have been banned, tied, and burnt by now."--rod.

.............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 08, 2005.

Point #1: I think it's pretty clear that Susan (Faith) would not be capable of moderating in an unbiased and fair way.

Point #2: I also think it's clear that the Catholics haven't hindered anyone else's posting or attempted to cause any sort of trouble. Being spared from reading topics of interest to Catholics is as simple as not clicking on them, no? Objection to our presence, then, could only mean that the objeciton is to our religion, not to individual posters, which goes to underscore point #1.

-- jake (j@k.e), February 08, 2005.

Who is Sarah? Faith claims not to be Sarah:

"rod?

Did you call me Sarah?

Sorry to disappoint--but if you know a Sarah--it isn't me.

I never denied posting as CreationScience@thinktank.com

Just so ya know...."

-- (faith01@myway.com), December 08, 2004.

.....................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 08, 2005.

So, it was Susan, not Sarah. What do you know!

............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 08, 2005.

I don't know what you're so enraged about, Faith. There are alot of people on this forum that are not Catholic. I think the problem for you is that you can't seem to engage the non-Catholics on this forum in your bitter attacks against the Catholics. Disunity, contention and dirision is what makes your engine run.

Elpidio and Zarove do a great job moderating because they are UNBIASED, and therein lies the problem for Faith a/k/a Susan.

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), February 08, 2005.

I called Frank on his recent attacks on Kevin, and Ian when he attacked faith ( Which backfired I admit).

The problem is ha mosg posters are form Cahtolci forum.

But, faith, their is a simple soluiton to this. Get peopl form other aorfs whoa gree with yo to post here.

Its that simple.

The reaosn the Cahtolcis outnumber everyone here is because they wer einvited by other Cahtlcis ( Rod started it) to come.

You can do the same, and in no time we woil balance the Cahtolci eiws with Dispensationalists.

So why not try to invite your friends over?Would this not solve all the problems?

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), February 08, 2005.

I don't have a problem with Catholics posting here. I rarely get involved in the ones that make absolutely no sense to me., such as the arguments between the Traditional Catholics like jake and TC and the regular Catholics. I sit back in amazement and every once in a while I can't resist trying to point out that their doctrines aren't even biblical--but that's about it.

I do, however, have a problem with the mean spirited attacks from Gail and rod--whenever I post. It gets tiring to be accused of being an anti-Catholic bigot or whatever other choice terms they have stocked up and waiting to use on me--every single time I post. Especially when this board should be my haven too or even moreso. This is not a Catholic site., yet I am ganged up on by catholics and even the non-Catholics who would agree with them.

I make no apologies for believing in the full authority of Scripture alone and in the power of salvation by faith alone. I always present biblical support for my positions whether anyone here chooses to agree with me or not. But I am tired of the attacks and the rambling off-course all the time when you can't argue the points.

All I am saying is that the name of this board does not apply. I am hardly *enraged* as Gail so tactfully put it. Lol!! I just think there should be some moderating. When I moderated, I was very fair and allowed everyone their say. But I certainly would not put up with the spamming or personal attacks that go unmoderated here these days.

Threads such as these:

*Playboy*, *SM*, and *Who do you like most of the people on this forum?*, *Kissing Someone just for fun*, *Does a Catholic Priest have to be a virgin to become a Priest?*, *Sexual Fantasies*, * Sexual Revolution*, *Do you like Jerry?*....to name a few--would not exist on this board had I been moderating. Those are nothing but junk clutter.

-- (faith01@myway.com), February 08, 2005.

That "junk clutter" can and has been turned around to a valuable lesson. The Scriptures answer to even them who are out to cause confusion, chaos, and sour spirits. We are not held hostage to Satan and his kind; we defeat them because we have God in our spirit, mind, and body. Faith, you are tough enough to bring those pranksters down. But, you give up. I say that we show them the right path. Turn the other cheek has many implications. Turn their foolishness into wisdom. Turn their posts to the correct path.

.....................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 08, 2005.

Faith, you called ME a heretic once, not in so many words btu said I didnt hav eht eHoly spirit guidign me becaue I rejec the Rapture, eben thogu you cant sow clear verses or it.

we allow you freedom, but whn you step on toes, don expect smiles.

aFTER ALL, YUOR BEELIFS AR EUNBIBLICAL, AS FAR AS i CAN DISCERN, AT LEAT DISPENSAITONALISM AND RAOTURE TEORY ARE NOT bIBLICAL.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), February 08, 2005.

I'm sorry rod--but I wouldn't validate their post with a response what-so-ever!

You didn't turn anything around or teach that person a thing! Those posts were not seriously submitted--they were pranks to insult...and I can't believe anyone would respond to them.

I am not going to waste my time on garbage like that.

And unfortunately, when I do take the time to respond to serious posts here--my points are dismissed as wrong--every time! We really all just go around in circles.......it seems so silly all of sudden.

I've been wasting years at this. Hopefully though, God has grown me to the point where I can take it into the real world where I might make a difference.

Just the other day while I was at church working on a mural I am painting--a couple of woman, who were there writing...started talking with me about my work. One thing led to another and I was just rambling on and on about things, when one of the woman asked me if she could quote me??

I was like--"quote me? What do you mean?" Turns out they were writing for a woman's conference coming up--and apparently I said some pretty great things about the Holy Spirit and how He works in our lives-- even using natural talents to serve Him. I was talking about how my art always somehow felt empty when all was said and done. I mean, so what--a painting...what of it?

I used to think like that. I wondered what any of it meant in the end. But now as a Christian--my work just has so much meaning to it and I thank God for that. I was quoting Scripture and just talking-- but apparently I was helping them. They said I came in and said the things I said at just the perfect time. They were stagnant and needed help. Afterwards I said that that was the Holy Spirit too! God used me to help them. And I am surprised at how much Scripture I know by heart when it all comes out like that.

So, I have taken some good things from this medium called cyberspace. It has forced me to be in the Scriptures everyday--and I think that that was God's plan to grow me in this way for now, since I am stuck at home with my children at this time in my life. But I am venturing out--finally, and it feels good : )

-- (faith01@myway.com), February 08, 2005.

Faith.

I have met and spoken with people who curse God. The kids in this forum seem headed that way, if not already. What good is it to let them fly away in the same spirit that they arrived? Could one small seed of light make a difference on their journey? I hope so. You are a strong and knowledgable believer. You actually have the power to bring the lost into the Gospels. You probably have brought many into His family than I have or ever will. God works in mysterious ways. Perhaps your style of evangelism works. We could count the number of believers in the evangelical faith system, I suppose. But, my point is. As long as these forums remain free, the lost can see all sides of the debates, discussions, or battles. They have the final choice.

............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 08, 2005.

Zarove has proposed a wonderful solution to your problem, Faith:

"So why not try to invite your friends over?Would this not solve all the problems? "--Zarove.

That's what a forum is all about.

................................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 08, 2005.

Imagine the discussions that would occur with Latter Day Saints, Jehova Witness, and Seventh Day Adventist in this forum.

................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 08, 2005.

"I was like--"quote me? What do you mean?" Turns out they were writing for a woman's conference coming up--and apparently I said some pretty great things about the Holy Spirit and how He works in our lives-- even using natural talents to serve Him."

Faith,

Think about it what if those 2 women were not writing for the conference but in fact were somebody like sdqa or punker and what you said or wrote finally clicked with them, you never know when, where or how your words will stick and they may not hit somebody until years later.

Just some thoughts from a Catholic! lol

-- Michael G. (NoEmail@Nowhere.no), February 08, 2005.

Zarove,

I called Frank on his recent attacks on Kevin

What? You may not recall, but it was KEVIN who said "billions of Catholics were going to Hell", not me saying "billions of non- denominational Christians are going to Hell". Get you attacks straight, you.

LOL, and Faith, lighten up a little. I understand your frustration, I really do. But take my word for it, people who become "heretics" on their own (as opposed to being born into it) are quite passionate about their beliefs and their decision, and are NOT likely to just shut up. You can always excommunicate them, of course, as a few Catholics were in the past here, apparently by David.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), February 08, 2005.

I have invited some people I know from other boards to come here--but they have never done so. I think it's the format here--and the fact that they are satisfied just posting where they are. I have a friend who is a Calvinist--and I thought he would like to come here and talk with David. I also invited David to that forum--but neither of them ever took me up on my invitations..though I bet they browse.

I would never invite people I know in person to come here. I like my anonymous status., plus I am sure that they would think I'm crazy for coming here--and they would probably be bringing me to our pastor for some straightening out or something :^P

-- (faith01@myway.com), February 08, 2005.

Is there a moral issue involved somehow in your rejection of the Catholic Faith, faith?

-- Emerald (em@cox.nett), February 08, 2005.

Faith

I can relate to your situation. I generally steer clear of any doctrinal or theological discussion with religious leaders. They would figuratively burn me at the stake or something. At worse, my views could stir a congregation into controversy. Some believers prefer to remain in their shell where it is safe. They would prefer to remain a little less educated in their faith system.

............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 08, 2005.

I'm thinking of a verse, "Don't cast your pearls to the swine."

Faith is right. Those threads should have been removed immediately, and they should still be removed, regardless of what conversation has progressed.

-- Luke Juarez (hubertdorm@yahoo.com), February 09, 2005.

Hi Luke.

I think that the same view is used to justify the deletions and bannings of undesirable posters over there at that other forum. Hey, that's why this forum has evolved. I think of this place likened to Australia. Metaphors to follow:

...........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 09, 2005.

Well, come to think of it. This place is a purgatory for some, a limbo for others, a haven, a pitstop, a stage, a pulpit, a mental ward, etc. Funny, there are all kinds of people. Some are actually searching for answers. Perhaps you are correct. Sodom and Gamorrah probably would benefit nothing by posting here. Who can really say?

p.s. Yes, I know they were not people, but cities that were destroyed.

.........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 09, 2005.

Rod

"I think of this place likened to Australia."

di you know that, whereas in decades gone by, families hid their history through shame. now they wear the names of their criminal ancestors as a badge of honour. the founding fathers.

of course, most of the convicts drafted out there had done very little. stealing a loaf of bread got you transported. brutal. mmmm. still a bit like over there?!?!?!

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), February 09, 2005.

"Interesting Dr. Rodriguez. " Ah! the truth is out. I do have some experience in psychology from my college days. Yes, I used to have lunch on a bench just outside the Psychology Dept.. You can learn a lot talking with the patients.

Ian,

Yes, more and more the Australian connection seems to fit. Some were cast out and some just fled. Vacationing and touring aren't that bad of a thing, yes?

.................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 09, 2005.

You can learn a lot talking with the patients. I actually found out that I was crazy-er than the patients.

...........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 09, 2005.

rod

this is creepy.

they had a terribly rascist immigration policy some years back.

OK.

"Ask the Wallabies"?

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), February 09, 2005.

That was funny! I have tears in my eyes. "Ask The Wallabies".....funny!

That was aboriginal....uh, original.

........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 09, 2005.

nice point.

who are the aborigines.

remember, they have successfully greclaimed loads of land. there is a positive discrimination scheme in their favour.

....or "Ask Skippy"

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), February 09, 2005.

Not only have they greclaimed their land, they also acquired some of their land back. Sorry, couldn't resist.

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 09, 2005.

quite right too!

i would tell you what "greclaim" means, but its a secret known only to the aborigines and me. i'd have to kill you straightaway using secret harmonies achievable only on a Digeredoo. they resonate the ears and would make your head explode.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), February 09, 2005.

Digeredoo......just as long as they ain't them bagpipes!

"grrehowoorrggeezzurreeoowahizoo"

I should have had the Digeredoo played at my wedding.

...............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 09, 2005.

"grrehowoorrggeezzurreeoowahizoo"

that's exactly the sound of a bagpipe. you musical guys are gifted.

i would describe the sound of the bagpipes, not phonetically, but as sounding exactly like a tone-deaf cat in the pains of labour whilst someone stands on its tail.

we must be careful though. Zarove is related to King James. he's possibly an occasional kilt-wearer and maybe even a lover of the tuneless drone of the pipe.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), February 09, 2005.

Actually, that was my Derigeedoo impression, but hey bagpipes works, too. Oh, my wife is a Montgomery. That would probably make her Scotts-Irish or Irish-British or just plain angry at me for dissing her native bagpipe. Although, I heard that the bagpipes might be of Iraqi origins. Hmmm...

......................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 09, 2005.

"Actually, that was my Derigeedoo impression,..."

sorry mate. its obvious now that you've told me ;-))

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), February 09, 2005.

Luke,

I think the reason that Elpidio is letting this board go to hell, is because all he is worried about is "status quo." Did you know that he keeps us posted as to what forum has the most posts and most new threads added to their forum etc..?....and apparently, we're coming in pretty close behind the Catholic forum. Who knows, just a little bit more trash and we might win--even though we lose.

-- (faith01@myway.com), February 09, 2005.

Faith

Have you emailed Elpidio as to why he allows those threads to exist?

Someday you and I will be able to have a peek at the reality of all this "mess". It is very simple to know why things are the way they are.

...............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 09, 2005.

Yes, I have emailed Elpidio more than once about this. He does not respond., except once he addressed me on the board by saying that those threads would work their way to the back eventually--or something to that effect.

I don't expect him to care about keeping this board honorable in Jesus' name-- because Elpidio does not give any honor to Jesus. He would just as soon honor any god....

-- (faith01@myway.com), February 09, 2005.

We could spend time discussing Elpidio's theology, but it still won't answer to your issues. Again, what exactly would you do to preserve this forum?

..........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 09, 2005.

Sometimes days pass before I get a reply from Elpidio. I can usually detect him online, but he must be busy doing other chores.

..............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 09, 2005.

Here's an example of his wacky moderating...

WHO DO YOU LIKE MOST OF THE PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM? for best replys(as far as i red): faith,john b most nice: jim,jerry the ones i like the least for various reasons: Zarove,and PaulM most funny: definately PUNKER

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.com ), February 08, 2005.

************************

So Elpidio did this to his post--in a thread that was a total waste of space in the first place:

WHO DO YOU LIKE MOST OF THE PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM? for best replys(as far as i red): faith,john b most nice: jim,jerry the ones i like the least for various reasons: [edited out because the thread stated the ones you liked...not the ones you disliked. We try to always have an open positive mind, even when we don't like someone.] most funny: definately PUNKER

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.com ), February 08, 2005.

***************************

Can you believe it? Elpidio will censor an opinion and yet allow trash about sexual fantasies and Playboy to stay up and running....

-- (faith01@myway.com), February 09, 2005.

How do you know that it wasn't Zarove?

There must be a reason for leaving the post still viewable.

I did ask the moderators to deal with those threads. I guess that they are dealing with them in their timely way.

.............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 09, 2005.

Wouldn't you see it that SDQA and his "friends" would stop prankstering around with this forum?

.............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 09, 2005.

rod,

What Elpidio did was splice an opinion. He actually went into the post and deleted the part that he didn't like.

Dealing with the thread would mean deleting all of it--not censoring someone's opinion. If he's gonna allow the thread to stay--then he can't do what he did. sdqa was within his rights to say that he doesn't like Zarove's or Paul's posts.

Elpidio is definately confused....and he won't give Zarove the password--even though Zarove is suppose to be moderating the board as well. Unless Elpidio just recently gave Zarove the password--it had to be Elpidio.

-- (faith01@myway.com), February 09, 2005.

Perhaps Elpidio has been too busy "directing the President of the United States" to spend much time here lately. Afterall, that's a pretty big responsibility :-) Here's how Elpidio phrased his role to me:

"Yet, I have been the only one that has actually been there for him these past years. I never asked for anything from him. Just to do Yahweh's work.

What happens when the Man of Yahweh is no longer on the side of the president? I was taken from his life in April 2004 in a dream I had.

Good Question. I wonder who took over my job in directing him.

The Christian Yahwist

The Man of Yahweh

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 07, 2005.

It's tough to be the top adviser to Mr. Bush and moderate this forum at the same time.

David

David

-- non-Catholic Christian (no@spam.com), February 09, 2005.

Faith,

I think you will agree, whether you like Elpidio's theology or not, he is a very courteous person. He does not like strife and that which could be seen as unkind. You can tell that by reading his responses to various attacks on his beliefs over the years. I've never seen him lose his cool. The thread was titled "Who do you like?' --- My guess is he just couldn't help himself.

-- Jim (furst@flash.net), February 09, 2005.

Yes, faith has e-mailed quite a few times.

Many posters in this forum are older than 40. We already went through puberty, and so for.

But there are younger ones who are still learning.

For example, when someone asks if it is a sin to read or see playboy? That's a legitimate question.

Many parents who went through the sexual Revolution had kids who either don't care, don't know morals, and so for.Even if the parents did not, thier kids did.

We even got some into the White house. One broke had many women. He married the one he thought was the best(Reagan).Another had also many women and these ideas about sex(Clinton). The other party drinker that even he had no moral authority to reprimand his own daughters when they did the same (Bush).

Thus faith, some questions are still relevant.

Why , because while with Clinton there were no sexual moral values, with Reagan and Bush ethical values are also out the window. Owners, CEOs,....cheat, steal,....elections are bought,...

I see both sides of the coin. You still haven't.

As for Zarove, he has to promise me he won't just delete or ban people he doesn't like. When you and him went at each other back after david left, that's when I stop short of giving him the password. David had assigned to EZ Board, not to Ask Jesus. I know he is a very smart individual. That is why I even made a section for his writings called Zarovean Threads.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 09, 2005.

Elpidio,

For someone who can predict everything--I am surprised that you can't recognize a mock question or the real intent behind the poster.

But the bigger issue, you did not address--and that is that since you decided to allow bogus threads--how can you justify censoring people's responses/ You completely dissected a poster's opinion because you didn't think it was nice? Is that proper moderating? I never see you delete Gail's posts when she defames me.....

Moderating is not censoring and sdqa had every right to say that he did not like Zarove or Paul M's posts without you deleting his opinion out. It was wrong. You can't start using your personal opinion about this--either everyone can't give their opinions if negative--or else you allow everyone. He did not personally attack...that is my point.

-- (faith01@myway.com), February 09, 2005.

Elpidio,

You will be disliked as a moderator as you will always make *someone* unhappy. You are doing a great job, keep it up!

Frank

-- someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), February 10, 2005.

Thanks, Frank.

I still remember when I joined the Catholic Forum in January 2001. Eugene Chavez and others got always on you. I could sense it ij the type of language you used that it was affecting you.

Then you you went to the hospital. Paul M. began moderating.

When you began to post again I noticed a more relaxed language coming out of you.

That's when I realized I needed to take it easy.

Life's so short to waste it.

So far I do the following things here: Delete threads, fix them, edit them, categorize them, save them in our yahoo mail, save them in EZ BOard,....

Then post replies,...

The only thing that I don't do as much is initiate threads. Only about 30 here. That is about 2 per month.

Even at the Catholic I initiated about 8. But people still remember me for the one on the Pope.

Even though I don't post that much, I generate a lot of personal e- mails.

Your friend, the Christian Yahwist.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 10, 2005.

You need to clone yourself, Elpidio. That way you can be at several places at the same time.

:)

rod

..............................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 10, 2005.

Yep, Rod.

I teach 8 classes Monday through Saturday and coach the SRLA team too.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 10, 2005.

Elpidio,

Then you you went to the hospital. Paul M. began moderating.

When you began to post again I noticed a more relaxed language coming out of you.

That's when I realized I needed to take it easy.

Well, this brings up two points for me. The first is that I'd never dreamed that someone would take a lesson from me almost kicking the bucket, so posting on Greenspun has done something useful after all, even if it was unintentional. The second thing that it brings up is that it's not anything I deliberately posted that was beneficial, so I guess I shouldn't be too happy with myself for what I DO post. The THIRD thing :-) it brings up is that I really should get back to paying more attention to what I'm posting here, as I've given more free reign to just popping off when I'm irritated, especially with Zarove recently. I guess I'll have to turn over a new leaf again, but it's not the first time.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), February 11, 2005.

"You are doing a great job, keep it up! "

i'll second that, Elp.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), February 11, 2005.

Elp, you shodl know beter. I dont delete things or edit things unless nessisary.

I only went after Faith to defned te truth abotu hisotyr and beelifs, but I woidl never dream of editing her posts , or deletign them. ( Least of all since I reprodiced many of them to cirtiisse them)

I dot beelive int ta sort of censorship. I woidl only delete curse words and innapropairate threads, suhc as "Why are all Chrisyaisn shittians".

That is just how I am.

The rest cna be handlesd trough dialouge.

As for banning peopel, mt queatsion.

Moderators cannot ban,only an Administrator can do this.

Not that Im big on banning.Just a point of fact.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), February 11, 2005.

There are situations that require one to be banned. Surely, when it has become obvious that such a person is posting in order to destroy the threads or to destroy the purpose of this forum, in other words, people who are here to ruin this forum are eligible for banning.

Never should a poster be censored or banned for posting their beliefs or views. Deletion of obscenities or pornography should be executed as quickly as possible.

I've had some of my posts deleted and threaten for banning because of my views regarding the rules, moderator behavior, and debate tactics. Well, sometimes we must take a stand. I'm still here. Something seems to be working.

................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 11, 2005.

Now, before people get the idea I'm running for office in this forum, the reason for posting my views is because our current moderators have exhibited the same basic ideals in running this forum. It should continue. I have asked how one would "preserve" this forum. If their answers are identical to these basic tenets, and we can trust them, then I see only good benefits for this forum. It boils down to trust and honesty and fair play.

..........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 11, 2005.

"I think David was making a very clear statement when he named his board--*Aski Jesus* and he intended for this forum to be biblically based and defended." - Faith

I did not name this board, I just took it over. I tried asking for a name change, but received no response. But there was some guy posting as Jesus before we came along.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), March 07, 2005.

Well, since one of the moderators and several of the main contributors are not even Christian, the name should be changed if at all possible. It's false advertising to say "Ask Jesus" and have people who deny Christ's divinity responding to the questions. Perhaps "Ask Elpidio" or "Ask Yahwists", anything as long as Christian and Jesus are not part of the name since there's really no strong representation of Christ and his teachings among the moderators.

David

-- non-Catholic Christian (no@spam.com), March 07, 2005.

I am not sure if a name change is possible at all. That is not up to me though. If the name bothers people, then send an email to Philip Greenspun requesting the change and a alternate name. I'll send an email tonight if I can too.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), March 07, 2005.

Well, David, who is Christian here? Perhaps "Ask Elpidio" or "Ask Yahwists", anything as long as Christian and Jesus are not part of the name since there's really no strong representation of Christ and his teachings among the moderators.

David Ortiz our salvation was already determined by God. I on the opposite end believe that up to the last minute God can change his mind on our salvation.

But when it comes to following Jesus Gospel, then most people here might falll short of being christian:

-Jesus was tolerant of other people's beliefs and practices. He cared for samaritans. Greeks, women,...

-Jesus wanted us to help the diseases, the poor, the infirm (special needs now), the widows, orphans,.....

But many here voted Republican who are aganist programs for the poor, widows,.... in the United States or other nations for conservative Governments.Bush is in favor of destroying social security,...and so on.

Bush favors churches where women have no say. These churches tend to be fundamentalist, that is they believe the Bible is correct as it is written.

And as for Jesus being, he even denied that in John. The father is greater than me, I am ascending to my father,...to my God and your God.

That can then make me one of the few christians here, David Olberman.

The Christian Yahwist

Man of Yahweh

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 07, 2005.

"-Jesus was tolerant of other people's beliefs and practices." - elpidio

Is this the same Jesus the bible speaks of?

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), March 07, 2005.

great post elpidio

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), March 07, 2005.

Elp

you have my respect, totally, as moderator, but do you really portray Jesus' message as it is written? consider this.

you correctly point out the extremely controversial nature of Jesus' time here on earth. he stood society on its head. he "ran with" the prostitutes, the tax colectors, the sick and the underclass. he was a true revolutionary is that sense.

it was not just the fact that He was the Mesiah that got the Jews' backs up!

however, whilst He did all this, He did so for a reason: evangelisation. IOW, He was not at all "fussy" about where He found His converts, so long as they converted. to Him.

....yes, the simple reason that Jesus loves us all.

..but the message that Jesus is love, to the point that everything else dwells into insignificance, is i think a little dangerous. ultimately, we have to respond to the grace. and we can respond in many ways.

those that vote Bush to reduce abortion are not doing bad job. far more lives are lost to abortion than to Iraq. far more.

even on the feminist issue, Jesus did not include woman amongst His Apostles. why not?

...and remember Jesus in the temple?

i think that Jesus was tolerant in many ways, but not - ultimately - when it comes to salvation.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), March 07, 2005.

David,

I wasn't being serious when I suggested a name change--I was trying to point out how the board was being over-run.

I was feeling more annoyed about the heresy and bad-taste posts that were allowed to remain, than I was feeling bad about the Catholic battles.

It's just that between all those religions and unbelievers--there wasn't a whole lot of Asking Jesus--or refering to Scripture going on.

I thought you started this board fresh when you were banned from the Catholic site--but I soon realized that I was mistaken.

I think we should keep the name--and then follow suit!

-- (faith01@myway.com), March 07, 2005.

I think that we should take Faith's viewpoint like a grain of salt. Many people do not believe as Faith does. Is this forum gonna become what Faith wants? She wants us to think and believer like her. According to Faith, we are all heretics and lost souls. Next, she'll want to call this place "Ask Faith". But, hey. That's just my immature view of things.

............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), March 07, 2005.

Look what SDQA has gotten out of this forum, Faith. You were ready to burry him. I think that you has a new outlook on things as a result of our discussions with him. The idea is to bring people into the light. You, Faith, are not 100% in bringing everyone in.

Laurent is gradually being pushed out the door at the Catholic Forum. Hey, they eventually wind up here. You are here, Faith. I say keep the doors open. I say keep the lifesavers in the waters until they grab on firmly for dear life. In other words, let's keep the ropes away from Faith. LOL!

........... ...........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), March 07, 2005.

rod,

You could pretend all you want to know what you are talking about. It doesn't matter. I was not talking about banning anyone--and I never did so when I was moderating this board.

I am talking about deleting crap garbage threads and posts that don't belong on this site. This board has been spammed with too much non- sense.

-- (faith01@myway.com), March 07, 2005.

Baloney! You don't even address the meaning of my posts. You do such a tap dance around the core of my points. You aren't worth the time of day when it comes to conversing with you. Perhaps we should just dance the day away, huh?

Re-read my posts and answer to my points. Get real for a change, Faith. Dealing with you is like dealing with jelly.

.........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), March 07, 2005.

I did deal with your points when I said that you don't know what you are talking about!

Just for starters, I never had a problem with sdqa, and never once wanted to ban him. It turns out that he was the one posting all the crap threads--him and his buddies, but still--I just wanted the spam deleted.

You mouth-off far too often rod, and you are usually hysterical and wrong.

-- (faith01@myway.com), March 07, 2005.

No, you are wrong, again. I don't "mouth-off" enough. I'm for the people in this forum. If they have a style that is not to your liking, then tough, Faith. They are people with issues, feelings, and dilemas. If their language or style is rough, hey, they can join your club. I will make the attempts to keep them here and listen. We can play softball or hardball, but we will play. People need a place to vent or to share life's little hardships. Hey, we are "Christians"; they can lean on us (maybe not you). So, their words may be spam to you, or cries for others. So, get humble, Faith. It won't hurt.

......

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), March 07, 2005.

Oh, I forgot.

Yes, I'm very hysterical. I may even be in the first stages of developing hot-flashes! Is it warm here or is it just me??

And, no! I'm not Wong. As far as I know, I've always been a Rodríguez, not a Wong.

........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), March 07, 2005.

David Ortiz and Ian,

Jesus was harder on outward religious people than on lax ones.

He called the Pharisees (Torah interpreters)washed tombs and vipers.

He called the Saduccees(priests) killers of prophets.

He even kicked out the sellers inside the Temple perimeter.

Bush bought the religious leaders with tax credits. He even bought pundits to do the talking.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 07, 2005.

Those religious leaders were false teachers and hypocrites, unbelievers--Elpidio. I wonder what choice prase Jesus would have for you?

-- (faith01@myway.com), March 07, 2005.

Good question, faith, since he was kind enough to show me that Catholics also call him only when they need him.

Maybe is because they also pray to the saints most of the time and even mary.

But he seems to talk more to my wife than me. First time he talked to her was in the early 1990s. I only talked to him on July 23, 2000.

When he taks to my wife he doesn't mention me. He mentions others whose salvation is in jeopardy. What else can I say, faith.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 07, 2005.

Maybe later this year you will get a chance to chat with her.

She was a catholic herself who at one time thought about becoming a nun.

She also thought I was crazy. One day I told her about a dream I had a bout Panama. I had seen a man getting beat up. That is when Noriega was President. The man was Guillermo ford. The next day when I visited her she said: "Look, your dream came true."

From that time che began to change with me. By 1992 she began to hear also voices about things that will happen. She even heard YHWH in December 1, 2003.

And no, I don't control what my wife reads, writes,...watches.... She is free as a bird to do what she thinks is best. I told her before I married her that I believe life between us should be 50-50. She says I am too nice to people sometimes.

We have been married 14 years.

I don't know about you. Are you still married to your first husband?

The Christian yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 07, 2005.

I still have just one question for you, Elpidio.

How do you know that you are speaking with the true Jesus and not an imposter--an antichrist/deceiving spirit?

How you checked with the Scriptures to be sure that the messages you receive are in line with His Holy Word?

-- (faith01@myway.com), March 08, 2005.

That should read, "Have you checked with the Scriptures to be sure that the messages you receive are in line with His Holy Word?

-- (faith01@myway.com), March 08, 2005.

Well, faith, when I talked to him in July 23, 2000, in the same 4 part dream which included Yahweh, Jesus had the power to control rain. He told me two things, one of them a propphecy:

1. Catholics only call him when they need him, and they forget about after the problems are gone.

2. No hard rain for 3 years in the area where I live: The San Bernardino-Los Angeles Area. This happened 2000-2001,2001-2002,2002- 2003. In October 2003 the first killer rains began. They killed a religious couple by the San Bernardino Mountains, close to my home. Then, if you saw the news, many people were killed at the Conchita and neighboring areas in mudslides in 2004-2005. In a sink hole close to where my brother in law lives, the street gave way killing the person in charge of fixing the hole.

If instead there had been hard rain from the start of 2000, or almost no rain since then, then I would not have believed that one was Jesus.

He looked sad, like a homeless man. His clothes were already dirty and worn.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 08, 2005.

Hmmmm, peculiar, rain.

It rained on my most important times of my life:

Wedding

Birth of both of my kids.

My sister's wedding.

Every year entering Texas from Illinois.

................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), March 08, 2005.

Will it rain in your funeral too, Rod?

I hope not. I want to be there with you remebering the old days, when we were stil teachers.

It also rains on my son's bitrhday year after year.

The christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 08, 2005.

Rain, what a nice concept for a stroy...

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), March 08, 2005.

Yes, it also rained on my birthday, this year it did.

.............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), March 08, 2005.

Elpidio,

Jesus is in complete control. He is greater now that He is in heaven.

He isn't visiting you with a sad face. What would be His purpose in that?

His Word is complete, revelation is bound and He now waits.....the victory is already His.

I know without a doubt that you do not know Jesus.

-- (faith01@myway.com), March 09, 2005.

Maybe he is tired, faith. Depressed at all the things done in his name that are not true. That is a big load to carry, even in Heaven.

Ask him, faith.

Just make sure you don't believe the vision is from the other one.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 09, 2005.

You don't get it Elpidio--

Jesus is God.

Depressed?

Oh, please!

He sees the begining from the end--and in spite of everything, He has allowed all things to work together for the good of those who love Him.

We are all part of His plan, there are no surprises, and God isn't depressed. He is not stymied or in torcher over what people are doing.

It is true that He wants that all should come to a saving faith in Him, but He also always knew who would and who would not. No surprises. Depression is a human emotion, Elpidio.

-- (faith01@myway.com), March 09, 2005.