Can someone tell me what they take the following verses as:

John 11:35-36 " 25Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?”"

Why would Jesus ask us to believe this and not mention that we have to be a member of a church?

Mark 9:38-41 38“Teacher,” said John, “we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.” 39“Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40for whoever is not against us is for us. 41I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward

Now I am nearly asking for clarification. Where in these two statements does it say I need to belong to God's church? I know it says I have to belong to God.. but???

1Corinthians 12: 14-26 14Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. 15If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

21The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don't need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don't need you!” 22On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

Doesn't this imply that the body of is made up if many different parts (denominations)? Because with this statement isn't it a little close-minded to think it is referring to strictly one denomination?

Maybe I'm a little hopeful/opportunistic, but hey I'm trying to learn.

Thanks again you guys & gals.

~jesse d.

-- Jesse D. (jessededeyne@hotmail.com), February 08, 2005

Answers

"Why would Jesus ask us to believe this and not mention that we have to be a member of a church?" Not just "a church" but HIS Church. If you really believe in Jesus, your belief whill be obvious by your actions. The very verse you quote shows Jesus referring to Himself and His infant Church as "us". Of course His Church doesn't try to stop anyone outside the Church from doing good things in Christ's name. His Church doesn't condemn anyone who is not "against us".

Denominational chiurches are not "indispensible" parts of the body of the Catholic Church. If they were indispensible, then the Catholic Church would not have survived, grown and and prospered for 1500 years before they even existed.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), February 08, 2005.

~~Jesse:
Many Bible Christians confuse belief in Christ for true faith in Him. The devil clearly believes in Jesus; but he hates and rejects all that it ought to mean.

It ought to mean that, believing in Jesus we draw close to His divine presence, and THAT-- is in the Church. He is truly present with His people in the holy tabernacle. But ONLY in the Church He truly founded. Not any assembly.

He is spiritually accessible as well; no matter where. But in the Church He's perpetually OURS, as Emmanuel. The Holy Eucharist is more than spiritual, it's corporeal (JESUS) access to those who love Him. We LIVE with Jesus; just as the Israelites once lived with Yahweh when he occupied their Temple in Jerusalem.

Having briefly stated this, it must follow that all superficial ''believing in Jesus'' is inadequate if we are to really live what the Holy Gospel teaches mankind. It's not sufficient merely to make a concession to a number of bare facts: ''Jesus died to save us, I won't ever die, because I believe,'' or that type of fact. We have to UNDERSTAND as well as believe in Jesus. His words must be treasured as His comprehensive doctrine; His Rule of Living. We can't be indifferent to ANY of his teachings; many which are extremely challenging and mysterious.

Sectarian Christians had the bad fortune to lose faith in some of the greatest revelations Jesus made to His apostles. And, from there to His Church and to every faithful Catholic. ''Bible Christians'' of every denomination, however, reject almost all the truth Jesus taught his Holy Church, and nevertheless they think they're living the faith.

Unless the complete deposit of faith has been fully believed by a Christian he is deficient in faith. He lives only on the edges of Christ's Gospel, in no real communion (fellowship) with True Believers. That is the main reason all Christians have to participate fully in the life of the Catholic Church. That's the reason we're baptised, confirmed, the reason we pray, we obey our pastors, etc., and we confess sins for absolution. Nothing is ever left to chance for the faithful living in the bosom of the Church. Because in the Church God makes us HOLY souls. We have total access to all His grace. That divine grace poured out endlessly from Christ's holy wounds, which He accepted for us dying on the cross, poured into His Church's sacraments, and down to each soul.

Unless a soul truly learns these mysteries and believes them, he/she has not yet believed in Jesus. This is the true Faith.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 08, 2005.

In response to Eugene, here's my question:

Where in the Bible, God-breated word, does it state that: 1) The Catholic Church is the only church? 2) The pope should be called the 'Holy Father'? 3) My believe in Christ is false? 4) The pope is always right? 5) Anyone outside the Catholic Church will not be saved?

Now I ask you this because I'm taught to not believe human interpretation, because humans and thus human churches are sinful. Maybe you can explain this to me. Also can you explain the fact that Peter himself never writes about the Catholic Church, but rather when writing writes to all Christians???? I'm confused why he wrote books in the Bible to all people and Christians, and did not address them to just teh Catholics?

Thanks

~jesse d.

-- Jesse D. (jessededeyne@hotmail.com), February 09, 2005.

I like your style of questioning. You seem very sincere. Could this sincerity lead you to a true understanding about catholic faith; or do you just rebuke and challenge the church, with specious accusations? If your heart is sincere, we should reply with equal sincerity:

''--does it state that: 1.) The Catholic Church is the only church? In the bible we're clearly informed. ONE Church is to be built --By Jesus. Not a number of them, as some folks believe. We see that Church beginning in Acts 2, the whole chapter 1; at the coming of the Holy Spirit upon THE CHURCH / This is in the persons of Christ's apostles and His holy mother. You can see that immediately following, Peter starts to preach the Gospel of salvation; and makes 3,000 converts in the first afternoon. Here is Christ's Church; right away bringing souls to Christ! How?

They are called to repent and be baptised. Baptism is being ''born again'', as Jesus expects all His followers to start off. Into the Church of the holy apostles. Not as a bunch of free- lancers going about in a large scattering over the world. Jesse; that's a no-brainer. If there wasn't any other church baptizing souls for Jesus then; why would they turn up at some ''reformation'' in 1520 A.D.--? He only founded ONE. (Matt 16.)

Why the pope should be called the 'Holy Father'? --Who cares? It really doesn't matter. We only say that as a title of deep respect; the way we call somebody Doctor, or Professor. He's our spiritual Father in Christ. We don't hold the Pope in some kind of imaginary idolatry. If someone told you that, they were liars.

About this: ''My believe in Christ is false?''

Certainly not. You have to believe! But you have to believe ALL He teaches you; without adding to His message, His Gospel, anything introduced falsely by MEN. (Read Galatians 1, :8 and :9) It's a SIN to believe what our holy apostles did NOT teach us. PLUS; we have to believe ALL the Gospel they preached, not only some selections out of the Bible.

''The pope is always right?'' --Not about everything, Jesse. He's only a human being, after all. The Pope can even commit a sin, if he isn't careful. He definitely IS right, when he instructs the faithful in most matters of FAITH and MORALS. We have to obey him in things he's appointed by Christ to GUARD, about our holy faith. No one else can contradict him; because Jesus made Peter His Shepherd over the Church: (Matt 16, :18-19, John, 21 :15-17)

Peter's authority passes down in the world to each new Pope. He's the successor to the first Pope, Peter.---- -------------- It's always about faith and morals, remember. But in an ordinary matter, we know the Pope is to be trusted, but he can be wrong sometimes.

''Anyone outside the Catholic Church will not be saved?'' To be honest, Jesse; MANY millions of souls outside the Church are going to be damned. The Church COULD have saved many of them; if they'd only known her. They needed her, and didn't know it; so they died in sin.

It's our SIN which damns us. Not the membership or faith or circumstances. If we die in sin, there's NO salvation. It says so in your Bible.

God is so infinitely Good and Merciful, the Church teaches us; that He has power over ALL SOULS; if He forgives them their sins, they'll still have salvation. But God has decreed for all mankind, there is NO salvation coming to you without Jesus Christ. PERIOD.

Only through the blood of Jesus will a single soul be saved; and even that one has to repent of all his/her sins. It does you no good to be a Catholic, or any other faith, if you die in sin.

The Church has all the GRACE necessary for our souls to come to Jesus and be forgiven for sins with absolutely --NO --DOUBT. Jesus gave His church that GRACE, to offer His faithful, for being born again (Baptism); and for having all sin taken away, before we die. (Confession. Or it's called the sacrament of reconciliation.) Without these graces, where will a man find god's forgiveness? Not from MEN. It has to come from God through His Son Jesus.

And it normally comes from Jesus to the Catholic Church to the sinner who truly repents. Any other soul (outside this Church) is under the penalty of sin, everywhere. He can't know at all what really feels like true forgiveness and true grace. Certainly he can repent with all his heart, and HOPE God will give him salvation. It's not quite out of the question. But no one knows; because God demands our whole obedience; and He made Jesus Our Saviour. Jesus gave me His Church, to teach me and watch over me in this life. Would I expect to be saved OUTSIDE Jesus' Church? I'll say honestly: No. He made me a Christian INSIDE His Church. If I leave the Church knowing what I know, I couldn't call myself a Christian. You see, Jesse; He will hold us strictly responsible on the last day. We must hold fast to everything He taught us through the apostles and the Church he founded. That's my sincere answer to your questions.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 09, 2005.

messed up.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 09, 2005.

Jesse,

Jesus was not a Roman, nor was Peter. They would not have used the words Roman Catholic Church. Its not in the Bible because there was no need for those words to be used at the time it was written. It was a universal church.

When you spoke of "all Christians" the word "catholic church" meant "universal church" which was meant to include all christians.

The word Roman as associated with the Catholic church was originally used in a derogatory manner. It was called The Roman Catholic Church by those in schism or who had broken away from the universal or catholic church.

My point is, the word catholic means universal. After the refomation those who separated, used the words Roman Catholic to differentiate and distance themselves.

-- Jim (furst@flash.net), February 09, 2005.

Excellent point, Jim.

Not just all that. We hear this: There are many parts, but one body.--------

Jesse; imagine a hand or a foot; cut away from the living Body of Jesus Christ; His Mystical Body

That member would die. Only with life from our Head do we sustain the life of Christ's Body. Jesus also compared Himself to a VINE; and we were called branches. He declared that any branch failing to bear good fruits was to be snipped off the living Vine; to dry up and later be cast in the flames. If we leave His Church, we're branches broken off the Vine.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 09, 2005.

“Also can you explain the fact that Peter himself never writes about the Catholic Church, but rather when writing writes to all Christians???? I'm confused why he wrote books in the Bible to all people and Christians, and did not address them to just teh Catholics?”

That’s why all Biblical scholars, Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox, refer to the letters of Peter, James, John, and Jude as “the Catholic Epistles”, because the Apostles addressed them to the WHOLE (i.e. “Catholic”, “Universal”) Church, which embraced all Christians at that time. The word "Catholic" comes from the Greek "Kata" = "thorough, complete" and "holos" = "whole". The Church has been referred to as "Catholic" (adjective) ever since the time of the Apostles and their immediate successors, but as all Christians then belonged to the Catholic Church, there was no need to differentiate "Catholics" (noun)from other Christians until 15 centuries later.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), February 09, 2005.

Actually, I know for a fact that Christians outside of the Catholic Church absolutely do have the life of Christ in them. I am one of millions in that position. Thus the "Vine" spoken of must be Jesus, not specifically the Catholic Church. And . . . being apart from the Catholic Church does not mean one is cut off from the Vine, Jesus.

And 'yes' this does mean that the Body of Christ is indeed bigger than just the Catholic Church. It includes ALL true believers in Christ from ALL denominations. It just does.

David

-- non-Catholic Christian (no@spam.com), February 10, 2005.

Dear David:
There's no question that by Baptism you are one of those reborn in Christ. But heretics aren't in full Communion with Him, from outside the Church. His Church is the Mystical Body; and you have NO -- life from the Head if you aren't a member. One mystic I've studied saw this analogy: Souls who break away from the faith of the apostles (heretics) are on the Mystical Body seen as lesions or wounds; they cause Him suffering. You cause Christ such pain by the rejection of His Church as to become unbearable.

What small comfort you afford Jesus by your misplaced faith, David, is your Baptism that makes true Catholics. Not your present church. Your CATHOLICISM now abandoned is all you have as an appendage of His Mystical Body. We can assure you; no other persuasion can make you His saint. Not one. -- But in the Church you're that real and living member, while you're in sanctifying grace. A saint.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 10, 2005.

I understand why you believe that Eugene, but it's a mistaken belief. I know for a fact that the Lord is dwelling in saints from all kinds of denominations who've never stepped foot (even infant feet :-) into the Catholic Church. So there's a need to change your understanding of what constitutes the Body of Christ. It's obviously bigger than just the Catholic Church, the evidence is overwhelming. I don't expect that this concept would be accepted here, but I feel compelled to say it never-the-less. I love the Catholic Church and you my brothers and sisters, but I do get frustrated with your obstinate insistence on not recognizing the Lord's valid working in other denominations and their legitimacy as being part of your family. That said, I am just as frustrated with the way most denominations view the Catholic Church and their obstinate refusal to view you as brothers and sisters in Christ.

David

-- non-Catholic Christian (no@spam.com), February 10, 2005.

I'm obstinate, David, because I take Jesus Christ's holy words at face value; I take Him seriously. But you haven't, I'm afraid.

This is a real frolic: ''I know for a fact that the Lord is dwelling in saints from all kinds of denominations who've never stepped foot (even infant feet :-) into the Catholic Church.'' OK, quite the thing every denominational Christian wants to think. --You're wrong, but you're content about it.

I have a typical un- believing friend in San Diego who was hospitalized a while back. He nearly died. At the time I felt obliged to speak to him of his soul; a word about doing some kind of penance for his sins. You know, just in case. Well; his reply was very frank. Not flippant, -- frank.

''I feel pretty good about myself, Gene.'' --And that's it. (OK. Suit yourself, I tried.)

David, I tried. But Man, you feel pretty good about yourself. Let me congratulate you, I had no idea you felt good about yourself. I thought you would ask somehow, is God feeling that good about you? About us? That must be our driving force --Instead of, ''I know for a fact that the Lord is dwelling in saints from all kinds of denominations''. Does Our Lord know it for a fact? NO; it's hardly the fact. If I thought for a second that's true, I'd be completely honest with you. I wouldn't presume to speak for HIM, I'm not that insolent. I'd say, YES. --But it isn't, David. Sorry /

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 10, 2005.

I know we disagree, Eugene, and don't expect to change that. So now that we've said our peace, I'll leave it there.

David

-- non-Catholic Christian (no@spam.com), February 10, 2005.

Heck, now I won't get to check your overwheming evidence. But OK. I can live with that.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 10, 2005.