The SDQA Challenge:

Find Any Verse From The Holy Bible

And Prove That Truth Cannot Be Found In That Verse.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 15, 2005

Answers

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 15, 2005.

evil verses in the bible,or verses that condemn someone for not doing something complete meaningless:

# To circumcise the male offspring (Gen. 17:12; Lev. 12:3) (CCA47) See Brit Milah: Circumcision.

[why?...why should it be wrong not to do so...?]-sdqa

Not to intermarry with gentiles (Deut. 7:3) (CCN19). See Interfaith Marriages.

[oh...very nice...very nice...do you really think god is going to tell you who to marry and who not?...didn't he create all people?...why would he forbid then such a thing?...and why would a loving god,forbid LOVE between a jew and a gentile?...])sdqa

To be fruitful and multiply (Gen. 1:28) (CCA43).

[and if i don't want to?...it's my thing...i don't want anyone to tell me how to organise my life...if i don't feel like having kids...how can someone force me then to have?...]-sdqa

That the woman suspected of adultery shall be dealt with as prescribed in the Torah (Num. 5:30) (affirmative).

[SUSPECTED????...omg...and about a man 'suspected' of adultery noone says a thing...very nice...and i wonder how it is prescribed to deal with such women...i can already imagine...]-sdqa

# That one who defames his wife's honor (by falsely accusing her of unchastity before marriage) must live with her all his lifetime (Deut. 22:19) (affirmative).

[why?...must live with her...if she rapes his children and kills his family he still must live with her...if he doesn't love her anymore...he must live with her...what a nice god...]-sdqa

That a widow whose husband died childless must not be married to anyone but her deceased husband's brother

[ever heard of love?...what if she doesn't love him?...still force her to marry him?...very nice...]-sdqa

# To marry the widow of a brother who has died childless (Deut. 25:5) (this is only in effect insofar as it requires the procedure of release below ) (CCA45).

[same comment as above]-sdqa

Not to travel on Shabbat outside the limits of one's place of residence (Ex. 16:29) (CCN7). See Shabbat.

[oh and why not?...what is wrong with that?...and what if i have to?]-sdqa

To keep the Canaanite slave forever (Lev. 25:46) (affirmative).

[oh so god allows us to have slaves?...but not to keep them forever...and he loves all people right?]-sdqa Not to wrong such a slave (Deut. 23:17) (negative).

[same comment as above]-sdqa

# That the Court shall pass sentence of death by decapitation with the sword (Ex. 21:20; Lev. 26:25) (affirmative).

# That the Court shall pass sentence of death by strangulation (Lev. 20:10) (affirmative).

# That the Court shall pass sentence of death by burning with fire (Lev. 20:14) (affirmative).

# That the Court shall pass sentence of death by stoning (Deut. 22:24) (affirmative).

[and these words come from a loving god?...do you really think that this comes from god? the one that loves us and forgives us?...come on people...be reasonable for once...is this correct?...why to kill someone? because he did something wrong...in the worst case killed someone else...but aren't you the same as him then?...there are other kinds of punishment and other kinds of things that could prevent him doeing such thing again...but why killing?...people can change...think about the thief on the cross next to jesus...do you even realise how precious a human life is...i'm sure that no single good father...not to speak of a complete good father would want his children been killed for their crimes]-sdqa

# Not to make a graven image; neither to make it oneself nor to have it made by others (Ex. 20:4) (CCN9). # Not to make any figures for ornament, even if they are not worshipped (Ex. 20:20) (CCN144). # Not to make idols even for others (Ex. 34:17; Lev. 19:4) (CCN10). # Not to use the ornament of any object of idolatrous worship (Deut. 7:25) (CCN17). # Not to make use of an idol or its accessory objects, offerings, or libations (Deut. 7:26) (CCN18). See Grape

[why?...what's the purpose of not doing so?...who do i harm if i do so?]-sdqa

Not to remove the entire beard, like the idolaters (Lev. 19:27) (CCN177).

[so we all have to look ugly and walk around with beards...what's the purpose of this?]-sdqa Not to tattoo the body like the idolaters (Lev. 19:28) (CCN163).

[and why not?...who do i harm if i do so?...just because i would look lik an idolater then?]-sdqa To slay the inhabitants of a city that has become idolatrous and burn that city (Deut. 13:16-17) (affirmative).

[oh very nice...kill people...burn their city...just because they are idolatrous...and you want me to believe that these words come from god?]-sdqa

# Not to curse a ruler, that is, the King or the head of the College in the land of Israel (Ex. 22:27) (negative).

[and why not? if he is evil?]-sdqa

To appoint a king (Deut. 17:15) (affirmative).

[over my dead body,complete against the most fundamental things i stand for]-sdqa

Not to sell a beautiful woman, (taken captive in war) (Deut. 21:14) (negative).

[and if she's ugly you can sell her?...and this comes from god also right?...very nice...]-sdqa

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 15, 2005.

Logically, sdqa might beat us on that, Rod.

All you need is to show one verse doesn't apply or is not true to prove the Bible is false.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 15, 2005.

sdqa proves the very point that the Old Testament is meant to make.

The Old testament is meant to reveal to us how impossible it is for man to be perfect. The Law reveals our lawlessness. And this Law introduces us to the fact that we injdeed need a Savior because we can't possibly measure up to God and His Holy requirements.

But this is the good news....we don't have to. Jesus came to *fulfill* that Law and be perfection for us--in our place. Only He is able to abide in God's Holy Law and only He can please God.

This is not to say that we can then sin and do whatever we want. But when we cloth ourselves in His righteousness--then God sees Jesus when He looks at us. And because we are found in Christ--we now have the ability to overcome this world. The Old testament has not been abolished--but it is fulfilled--paid.

Don't fret over your inadequecies sdqa., no one is still telling us that we can't marry outside of our bloodline--or nationality. It doesn't matter anymore. Though I would strongly suggest not marrying someone whose faith--or lack of it--does not match up with what you believe.

-- (faith01@myway.com), February 15, 2005.

Of coruse all he did was cut and paste useless information he dosnt undertsand and thinks is bad.

Plenty of verses though contain untruth. we had a discussion abotu Job that way, where the thogths of men where presetned. its true these where the arugments, bu the arguments themselves arent true...

But SQ cant think like hat and will just dump a list of half baked nonsence he cant rlelay think abut or try to undersand.

Byt hr way SQ, Noah was told be frutifl and multipley, as shre adam and eve, beczuse if they didnt, we widln be here...

with a populaton surplus, you may fiund this hard to undertsand, btu if they didnt breed, Humanity went extinct.

Thats why it wasnt an evil verse, and why it made sence.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), February 15, 2005.

i didn't cut and paste...i wrote this myself...yes i used it already as an answer why i don't believe in judaism,but i wrote this...

do you believe the bible is the word of god?

than you believe in these things also i suppose...and these things are anything but moral

have you actually red my post?

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 15, 2005.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

SDQA has not proven a thing. He merely has asked more quetions. I want to see one verse and one set of proofs against the Truth of that verse. For example:

Matthew 8:20 - And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 15, 2005.

SDQA,

You know, many of these OT laws were the first recorded rules of behavior **at all** in their situation. So by today's standards you think they are harsh, but in reality they put limits on people's conduct that led the people to a more civilized life. Think about it for awhile, even from a non-believing standpoint, don't you think it's better to have some law than NO law at all?

BTW, when reading something that's several thousand years old, remember the advice of Chief Seattle, "never judge a man until you have walked a mile in his mocassins".

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), February 15, 2005.

sdqa..I find it so interesting that you chose all of your verses from the Old Testament..yet lets talk about them.

God selected the Jewish people as HIS people. The laws which you quoted were to ensure that the Jewish nation survived intact. They also insured that Jews could be identified as Jews..to be recognized by themselves and others as a completely separate people..God's CHOSEN people.

Almighty God is not only a loving God, but also a JUST God and a God to be feared if a person transgresses against Him. Consider Sodom and Gommorah.."poof" as in all gone. God did that Himself. If God chose to totally destroy entire cities of sinners, who can argue with laws which call for the stoning of an adulteress?

Some of the laws you quoted, you need to read more carefully..If a man UNFAIRLY accused his wife, he must keep her forever..in Old Testament days, men could divorce their wives..this law prevented a man from unjustly accusing his wife and later on getting rid of her. Much of Jewish law protected women..especially widows with children.

There would have been no reason for a man to leave his place of residence on the Shabbat..for what? It's a day of prayer. No work. This was one of the examples Jesus gave in the N.T. concerning the law..who among you would not go and look for a lost sheep on the Sabbath? Yet unless something extraordinary arose, people stayed home and prayed.

So argue with God Almighty if you like about O.T. laws..they each had a distictive purpose for their day. If you lived then, you certainly could have made yourself a nice golden idol, and taken a stroll with it on the Sabbath to the next town, selling it to the Gentiles for a neat profit margin, where you could choose to shave your beard and marry an Arab girl..and when God struck you dead for all of that foolishness of breaking His laws, you could take it up with Him..but you'd have lost the argument and wish you had done otherwise..too late.

So, show us some New Testament verses sdqa..if you dare.

-- Lesley (martchas@hotmail.com), February 15, 2005.

'You know, many of these OT laws were the first recorded rules of behavior **at all** in their situation. So by today's standards you think they are harsh, but in reality they put limits on people's conduct that led the people to a more civilized life. Think about it for awhile, even from a non-believing standpoint, don't you think it's better to have some law than NO law at all?

BTW, when reading something that's several thousand years old, remember the advice of Chief Seattle, "never judge a man until you have walked a mile in his mocassins". '

[yes i understand frank...certain things only fit in the frame of a particaluar time/place/culture/society...but i think this reveals the non-divine origin of the bible...at least the OT...]-sdqa

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 15, 2005.

to lesley:

[you only agree with this because you thinks it comes from god...(or you're just pure evil?)stoning an adultress is evil! jesus was against this! "let the first of who has no sins throw the first rock"(another contradictation between the OT and the NT!) yes religion destroys your intelligence,it's impossible that all those millions of christians all agree with everything that is said in the bible because they think that way also,they do think that way but only because they think it comes from someone on who's wisdom is supreme and they can rely on blindly...i'm sure that if it was said in the bible that homosexuality or fornication were right that you would agree on it]-sdqa

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 15, 2005.

"The head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man...." I Cor.:11:3

isn't this sexsistic?

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 15, 2005.

No SDQA, it is not sexist. God gave woman to the man, and man to the woman. The man is the provider and protector and the spiritual leader of the home. That his ROLE. Women are ontologically EQUAL to men but have a differing role; usually one of building a home for their family, nurturing and loving their children.

Men are instructed to LOVE THEIR WIVES AS CHRIST LOVED THE CHURCH AND GAVE HIMSELF UP FOR HER! That is a heavy duty obligation, SDQA. Furthermore, husbands and wives are instructed to SUBMIT TO ONE ANOTHER, preferring one another. Man is not BETTER that woman.

Then you said ..."but i think this reveals the non-divine origin of the bible...at least the OT." No, SDQA, it does not. Just because you don't understand something, or find it unpalatable is NOT the measuring rod by which "divine authorship" is determined.

The O.T. does at times seem harsh, but as Lesley pointed out . . .things were a wee bit different back then. Brutal even! Even more brutal that the Middle Ages!!!

***

God made a covenant with Israel in the O.T. He instituted the Passover Feast foreshadowing the great sacrifice that would come much later; His son. The events of the crucifixion fullfill the prophetic implications of the Passover to a tee -- in every minute detail!! Jesus is ALL OVER the O.T.

Christ has fullfilled all messianic prophecies . . . the likelihood of which, mathematically and statistically, is off the charts.

******

Look around you, SDQA, haven't you ever wondered about the "anti- Christ" mentality in our country, and in our world? Why is Buddha's name not used as a cuss word, why not Mohammed's name? Why do the peoples rage against God and His Christ? Why is Jesus always the one under attack? I mean have you ever stopped to consider that? AND Why is Christ's name the ONLY name that drives out demons? Why? Don't you understand SDQA, that Christ is abhorred by this world because He is not OF this world!

I pray SDQA that the eyes of your heart will be opened, that you will come to know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the GLORY that is to be revealed in that heavenly kingdom. God loves you, SDQA, and He created you like a master painter creates a beautiful portrait. Those traits that you have of tenderness are REFLECTIONS OF HIM! Don't you get it, SDQA, you are MADE IN HIS LIKENESS!!!

Open your heart, SDQA, and receive His love.

Gail

Revelations: 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven say, "Behold the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, adn they shall be his people, and almighty God will be with them. And God shall wipe away every tear from their eyes and THERE WILL BE NO MORE PAIN, no sorrow, no mourning, no more death, behold I MAKE ALL THINGS NEW.

For if any man be in Christ, BEHOLD, he is a new creation!!

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), February 15, 2005.

Great post Gail!! Wow!

-- (faith01@myway.com), February 15, 2005.

SDQA

Remember how I asked if the Bible contradicts the family model, but instead gives us a guide? You have just provided Scriptures that addresses such issues. The Bible does not contradict our survival, but it shows us a model for life. To put it in simplistic terms:

The man goes out and hunts while the woman keeps the cave thriving. The man is physically made to do his job, as the woman if physically designed to care for the children. A Divinely created balance.

.......

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 15, 2005.

SDQA

By the end of this discussion, you will have learned a number of things.

1. Your understanding of the Scriptures will become more enlightened.

2. Your willingness to dig further into the Word will become stronger.

3. Your respect for people's beliefs will be based on your understandings of Scriptures.

4. Your arrogance will be tempered by your humbleness.

5. Your free will to accept or reject Christ will become not a choice based on ignorance, but on understanding.

6. Life will reveal more truths, of course.

..........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 15, 2005.

Rod,

You make excellent points above. I can truly identify. Back in the old days I went through a period when I held many of sdqa's ideas as as absolute free thinking truth.

Never had the Catholic dispizing edge that sdqa has, but I can relate. I felt inclined to secure my beliefs by destroying others.

I was at a party one night; it happened to have quite a few seminarians in attendance. Don't know how I ended up there as it wasn't the type of seen I generally would have found myself in in those days. They were a few years older than me but still quite young themselves. I had a few beers and felt it was necessary to go to war with them. They kindly and calmly told me to go to Mass. I would have none of it, and was "on."

Smugly swatting down one belief after another, "I was at the height of my atheistic intellectual powers." I left feeling quite superior about my performance. I felt elated. I had always taken a "nice" approach when trying to destroy another's way of thinking, and I didn't hate the Church. Just thought it was rubbish.

Several years later while still an atheist, I had an epiphany that I was simply being an ass. I felt embarassed and ashamed about that night, something that happened 4 years prior. I didn't get dumber, I just saw things more clearly. Its amasing how time and experience can move you in directions you would never think could be possible.

And 16 years after that night I went to Mass.

-- Jim (furst@flash.net), February 15, 2005.

Rod I've scene what you meant about spelling. Just wish I wasn't so bothered about it. I think it s because I type 3300 wpm. Some just get by.

-- Jim (furst@flash.net), February 15, 2005.

Wow! Jim. What is that? about Mach 1.3 on the typing?

I was very arrogant about being "right" during my college years. I think that was just my survival instincts kicking in. Life has a way of chopping a person down to their proper size. Thank God!

......

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 15, 2005.

sqda..NOW you're getting it !!!! YES.Jesus astounded those people who were all ready to stone the woman who was guilty of adultery. Can you imagine the scene?? There they were, following the LAW of the Old Testament..they were 100% correct in what they were about to do. They had been doing this for ages and ages..it was God's LAW. And don't think for a minute that the woman didn't know it either..she did.

So now here is this man called Jesus..he walks up and looks around and says to the crowd.."Let he who is without sin among you cast the first stone."

Whoa..nobody had ever said that before. I can picture everyone kind of looking at one another, waiting for somebody to DO something..these weren't bad people. They were just regular folks carrying out what they knew as the LAW. Yet as they took in Jesus's words, they thought AS YOU THINK SDQA..they thought, "Hey..we all are guilty of SOMETHING BAD." and so they walked away.

And Jesus spoke to the woman, telling her to "Go and sin no more.".. He didn't tell her that adultery was Ok, or that "It's all good." He told her not to continue in adultery.

Jesus was full of "new" teachings..that's why the very word "GOSPEL" means "GOOD NEWS"..

So yes, there's a big difference between "before Christ" and "after Christ"..can you try to imagine hearing the "Good News" for the first time SDQA???

If you read just ONE of the New Testament books..just ONE, in the quiet of your room..not to look up verses to show how much you hate Catholics..or to prove any point..but just to read the "GOOD NEWS"..you might find yourself being filled with an understanding of the meaning of scripture..just maybe.

-- Lesley (martchas@hotmail.com), February 15, 2005.

Not everyone here is trying to covert you, to Christ, sdqa.

I am not.

I believe a person should be free to make his/her own choices in life.

Some of my good friends are atheists. Do I believe they are going to hell? For me that depends on how they treated others.

Nature has provided us with guides: for every 103 children that are boys , 100 are girls. This says then there is a one woman for one man.

The Atheist or nonpracticing person suffers. So he knows what suffering means. Thus, he/she tries not to careate suffering himself/herself for others.

If you can live by these tenets, then I believe God will show even mercy the to Atheist.Even if the Atheist doesn' believe in him.

So many religious people have created so much suffering that they have made many people unbelievers.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 16, 2005.

"Then you said ..."but i think this reveals the non-divine origin of the bible...at least the OT." No, SDQA, it does not. Just because you don't understand something, or find it unpalatable is NOT the measuring rod by which "divine authorship" is determined.

The O.T. does at times seem harsh, but as Lesley pointed out . . .things were a wee bit different back then. Brutal even! Even more brutal that the Middle Ages!!! "

[OMG...how can one loving father KILL his children for adultery? how? there is no explanation for that...that directly contradicts with 'thou shalt not kill' and with the most fundamental teachings of jesus christ...WHO FORGAVE THE CRIMINAL ON THE CROSS,WHO SURELY DID MUCH MORE WRONG THAN ADULTERY...there was no need for such rules! adultery wouldn't bring the whole jewish society down...if you say that this comes from god...than i think i'll go worship satan...because killing is pure evil . end of discussion...ps: you can't believe in jesus if you believe in this...and you can't believe in this if you believe in jesus...the biggest contradiction in the bible is the inmense contrast between the OT and the NT...if we would take all the dogmas from the NT and only stick to jesus's non-dogmatic teachings and storys,he'd be a pretty nice guy(not in ALL aspects...)...at least i think so]-sdqa

"No SDQA, it is not sexist. God gave woman to the man, and man to the woman. The man is the provider and protector and the spiritual leader of the home. That his ROLE. Women are ontologically EQUAL to men but have a differing role; usually one of building a home for their family, nurturing and loving their children.

Men are instructed to LOVE THEIR WIVES AS CHRIST LOVED THE CHURCH AND GAVE HIMSELF UP FOR HER! That is a heavy duty obligation, SDQA. Furthermore, husbands and wives are instructed to SUBMIT TO ONE ANOTHER, preferring one another. Man is not BETTER that woman. "

[assigning a different stereotype role to a man and a women is sexsistic...father the big boss of the family,earns money...women stays at home,gives birth to children,takes care of them,takes care of the household...very sexsistic]-sdqa

"Remember how I asked if the Bible contradicts the family model, but instead gives us a guide? You have just provided Scriptures that addresses such issues. The Bible does not contradict our survival, but it shows us a model for life. To put it in simplistic terms:

The man goes out and hunts while the woman keeps the cave thriving. The man is physically made to do his job, as the woman if physically designed to care for the children. A Divinely created balance."

[this is not true...there is no such thing as a 'model family',everyone has his own ideas about it...THE WOMEN IS NOT DESINGED TO GIVE BIRTH TO THE CHILDREN,TAKING CARE OF THEM,STAY AT HOME,DO THE COOKING AND THE CLEANING...ETC...IF THE WOMEN HAS A JOB AND THE MAN HASEN'T...YOUR IDEALISTIC ROLES CAN SWITCH,there is no such thing as a 'function' in a family...it all depends how YOU want to organise your life]-sdqa

By the end of this discussion, you will have learned a number of things.

1. Your understanding of the Scriptures will become more enlightened.

[no...i still think pretty much all the christian dogmas are **** and the OT pure evil]-sdqa

2. Your willingness to dig further into the Word will become stronger.

[yeah,to find more evil stuff]-sdqa

3. Your respect for people's beliefs will be based on your understandings of Scriptures.

[replace respect with pity]-sdqa

4. Your arrogance will be tempered by your humbleness.

[i don't think so...]-sdqa

5. Your free will to accept or reject Christ will become not a choice based on ignorance, but on understanding.

[i already know it all...my rejection of christianity is based on my knowlegde of the scriptures]-sdqa

6. Life will reveal more truths, of course.

[what has that to do with this?]-sdqa

"sqda..NOW you're getting it !!!! YES.Jesus astounded those people who were all ready to stone the woman who was guilty of adultery. Can you imagine the scene?? There they were, following the LAW of the Old Testament..they were 100% correct in what they were about to do. They had been doing this for ages and ages..it was God's LAW. And don't think for a minute that the woman didn't know it either..she did.

So now here is this man called Jesus..he walks up and looks around and says to the crowd.."Let he who is without sin among you cast the first stone."

Whoa..nobody had ever said that before. I can picture everyone kind of looking at one another, waiting for somebody to DO something..these weren't bad people. They were just regular folks carrying out what they knew as the LAW. Yet as they took in Jesus's words, they thought AS YOU THINK SDQA..they thought, "Hey..we all are guilty of SOMETHING BAD." and so they walked away. "

[yes,and i admire what jesus did there...a lot...but this is pure contradictory with the OT...he said he didn't came to annul the laws...yet he annuled many...not that i think it's wrong...i hate those laws...but this is just the proof that the OT...or at least the torah...doesn't come from god...at least if you believe in jesus...because jesus opposed to many things that stand there...the OT and the NT can never fit in one the same book...if you trully believe in jesus...you can't accept or believe those laws of the torah,because it's against what jesus taught...]-sdqa

"Not everyone here is trying to covert you, to Christ, sdqa.

I am not.

I believe a person should be free to make his/her own choices in life.

Some of my good friends are atheists. Do I believe they are going to hell? For me that depends on how they treated others. "

[thanks for not trying to convert me man]-sdqa

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 16, 2005.

"assigning a different stereotype role to a man and a women is sexsistic...father the big boss of the family,earns money...women stays at home,gives birth to children,takes care of them,takes care of the household...very sexsistic"

This is pure propaganda that became hugely popular in the "women's liberation movement -- burning of the bra" movement that began in the 1960's Since that time, we have seen the anniliation of the family. This propaganda has wreacked havoc on our society SDQA. You have simply become part and parcel with the culture of the day.

Woman have children, SDQA, that is a biological fact. Men do not have children, SDQA, that is a biological fact. Women are physically weaker than men; that is a biological fact. That is not sexist. Those are the facts. Woman are "nurturers" by NATURE. That is their God given role. Men are protectors; that is their God given role.

Right now in our culture women are FORCED to work by this garbage that was set in motion by the Women's Lib movement. They are STRESSED to the breaking point trying to have careers and children at home . . . Doing it the way of the world does not work!

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), February 16, 2005.

"assigning a different stereotype role to a man and a women is sexsistic...father the big boss of the family,earns money...women stays at home,gives birth to children,takes care of them,takes care of the household...very sexsistic"

this is true...you can say that this is good or bad...but you can't deny it's sexistic...who are you to tell the mother to stay at home and take care of the children? it's her life!

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 16, 2005.

and once again i want to thank the hippies for changing things around...they did a lot...but they could have done much more...

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 16, 2005.

sdqa..you've never once answered me..either here or on the Catholic forum..where is it that you think you'll be spending all of eternity? When you die..what do YOU think will happen to you?

-- Lesley (martchas@hotmail.com), February 16, 2005.

i think i already answerd this on the 'why are you christian' thread:

"to lesley:good people are good people...religion has nothing to do with this...when i would meet one day god,face to face...i'm sure he wouldn't be mad at me for not believing in jesus or not being a catholic...what would i say then? well i'd say hi,happy to meet you,i've been looking for your all my life but i couldn't find you in any religion or institution...only in your creation"

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 16, 2005.

SDQA, our culture tells women they can "have it all" and neglects to tell them the "cost." That is my point. I do not tell anyone what they should do, but a person should be given ALL the information in order to make an informed choice, wouldn't you agree?

There is price tag attached to every single solitary choice you make. You cannot change that, SDQA. Consequences follow our choices like night follows day, and as long as well live in this world, that will always be the case.

It seems to me that you are desperately trying to make God into your own image . . . He's kinda a cool guy, doesn't care about what we do, doesn't care about the people we hurt, doesn't care about the sins we commit. He's sort of a long-haired hippie type that wears bandanas, tie-dyed shirts and sits around holding hands with his people singing kum-ba-ya!

Actually the God who IS, is a holy God . . . perfectly and completely holy. He is, afterall, the one who designed the entire universe. How could He be otherwise? He is fathomless, endless, eternal, loving and HOLY! Unless you submit to Him in this life and allow Him to transform you into His holiness, you will not be able to stand in His presence. IMPOSSIBLE!

Yes, I suppose I am guilty of trying to "convert" you SDQA, because you are a lost, confused, troubled and precious soul who needs HEALING! (as we all do)

Gail

P.S. And I will keep praying that God will reveal Himself to you MORE AND MORE AND MORE, until you fully realize who He is . . in truth! And that you will given to the grace to respond.

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), February 16, 2005.

Unless of course you object, as I will certainly respect your wishes. May I pray for these things for you?

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), February 16, 2005.

"P.S. And I will keep praying that God will reveal Himself to you MORE AND MORE AND MORE, until you fully realize who He is . . in truth! And that you will given to the grace to respond. "

[off course...maybe i should too...]...sdqa

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 16, 2005.

For a moment there, It seemed that Carlos Santana was mentioned in your post, Gail. :)

The last thing anyone here wishes to do is to steer anyone down the wrong path. Just because a person becomes a believer in Christ, it doesn't mean that the person suddenly becomes stupid or docile. As a matter of fact, the believer becomes empowered to do things he thought were impossible.

Gail

I get the feeling that you work with the youth at your Church. I bet you are very well liked by many there. If not, you should be around them (especially as a Catechism teacher).

..........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 16, 2005.

thanks anyway gail

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 16, 2005.

Hey Rod, I love Carlos!

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), February 16, 2005.

SDQA, I take that as a yes . . .?

Well here is a prayer, you can either agree with it, or disagree, it's up to you.

Lord God, I lift up this precious soul to you. I bring him before you Lord. I ask you to meet him right where he is. I ask you to shed your love and light upon him . . . oceans of mercy and oceans of grace. Show him that he has a purpose and meaning in this life; that you have known him since before the foundation of the world, that he is intricately and marvelously made. Show him Lord your beauty and majesty. Fill his heart with hope instead of despair. Help him to find you in the midst of his troubles. Heal him Lord -- heal his pain, heal his sorrow, heal his soul.

Amen!

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), February 16, 2005.

thanks,that prayer is so beautifull

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 16, 2005.