suicide : LUSENET : Ask Jesus : One Thread

do all people who kill theirselves go to hell?

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 16, 2005


Not nessisarily.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), February 16, 2005.

i could use some more explanation zarove...i am really intrested about this...

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 16, 2005.

ou didnt give much so I cant.

I mean, WHY did thy commit suicide?

What was thie rmental state? where they deranged and Psychotic at the itme? perhap compulsive an dotu o contorle? If so, then its not a sin, btu a menal illness.

If they do ift for fun, tis a sin, because its just plain stupid.

Yiur girl broke upw ithy uo and you kill yourself? sin, because thats a lame reaosn to end your life.

But rellay it depends on the motivation.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), February 16, 2005.

and what if it happens because of depression?...or if someone is really convinced that that is the best thing to do?...or the ppl who jumped out of the wtc towers rather than getting burned alive in it?

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 16, 2005.

THE WTC was not suicide, it was a last ditch effort to save themselves. even if they KNEW they weould die and had no illusion of a chanc of surcvival, they where chosing how they died, not if they died.

Its like socrates who drank Hemlock. He was givign the hcoice. Poison yourself or let us run you through with a sword. its not rlelay a choice.

The rest depends on the state of their mind.

And on God's JUdgement of their soul.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), February 16, 2005.

i agree

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 16, 2005.

-- qwert (qwert@yuiop.asdfg), February 16, 2005.

ewtn: Therefore, objectively, suicide is a mortal sin. (Moreover, to help someone commit suicide is also a mortal sin.)

Especially the last sentence !! Helping someone commit suicide is murder first degree , nothing more , nothing less !!" You got to be a cheap freaky cold nuthead to "help" someone end his/her life !!

People does commit suicide for different reasons , but , what in case when it's a family matter , I'm talking about , in a family (generations) , several members which committed suicide ??

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), February 16, 2005.


In order for something to be a sin (and therefore possibly lead to Hell) you must 1. understand that it is wrong, and 2. *choose* to do it anyway.

If you are in sound mind and body and just decide to kill yourself to see what's on the other side of the door, that is a sin. If you are truly mentally ill and don't know right from wrong, this likely is NOT sinful and so would not lead to Hell. The final determination though is God's, not ours, and the best thing to do is avoid the situation all together.


-- Someone (, February 16, 2005.

Hello Laurant,

To expand on Frank's post: Catholic theology distinguishes between the objective sinfulness of an act and the culpability of the person who commits the act. For a parallel in secular courts: a person guilty of a crime may receive a lighter punishment (or no punishment!) depending on the circumstances.

-- qwert (qwert@yuiop.asdfg), February 16, 2005.

Do all people who commit suicide go to hell? I sure hope not, yet only God knows the answer to this one.

This question strikes so close to my own heart sdqa..for years and years my oldest son suffered from depression..some really bad stuff brought on by heroin addiction..or perhaps the addiction was brought on by depression? Who knows for certain..he doesn't even know.

Such a troubled young man..a few times a year, for 8 years in a row, he'd call me in tears to tell me "Good-bye"..and he meant it every time. Life had gotten too tough for him. He hated himself too much. He quite literally saw no other way to end his pain except death. Yet at the last moment, something always seemed to stay his hand. He had been raised by us to believe in God..yet he did not believe anymore..but he told me years later that some nagging "something" kept him from suicide many times..until..

One afternoon,facing yet another day of looking for heroin on the street, and hating himself for it, he jumped from a 5 story window, fully intending to kill himself. There were 4 policeman who witnessed this..He did not even lose consciousness, never mind die. He had nothing break his fall, but landed right on the sidewalk. He broke his left hip, ankle and his left arm..that's it.

Since that day, my son has been drug free, and has turned his life completely around. He spends his free time preaching the Gospel to other young men who are addicted to drugs. His thoughts about suicide? I'll share them with you.. "Suicide is the greatest cowardly act of is the ultimate "running away" from which there can be no return, no second chance. As long as you have breath, you have a chance to be better than you are."

That's from a letter that he wrote to me.

I thank God every day for my son. I thanked him every day for my son when he was an addict..

and lastly, someone wrote "Each man's death diminishes us all." I agree with that. To take one's own life deprives the rest of the entire world of that person prematurely..Only God knows if those folks go to hell..who can say? I only know how much I agonized over that very question for years and years with my own son in mind, being so grateful I never had to actually deal with it as a reality.

Why didn't my son die when he fell? It's my firm conviction that God listened to our many,MANY prayers for our son..and it was His will that our son live and that he be an example of God's love for all God loves us regardless of who we are or what we have done..that he is constantly calling for us to come to Him.

-- Lesley (, February 16, 2005.

"He will bear you up on eagle's wings, Bear you on the breath of dawn, Make you to shine like the sun, and hold you in the palm of His hand!"

Excerpt from the song "On Eagle's Wings"


Thank you for sharing that, Leslie!

-- Gail (, February 16, 2005.

Some go to the Hell of Darkness if they were evil. This is a place devoid of light.

Most go into purgatory, a place where people wait out : 8 years-1000 years.

How do I know? I had dreams about it.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (, February 16, 2005.

i dreamt twice i think that i was in purgatory while not even knowing about purgatory...the first dream i dreamt on a school trip when i was 6,i can perfectly remember it...the other one i totally forgot...

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 16, 2005.

Less than 10% of the people ever make it to Heaven, sdqa.

30-40% end up in purgatory.

15-30 % go to to the Hell of Darkness.

The rest disappear altogether.Their spirit ceases to be. These are those who after being sent to either purgatory or the darkness place try to cheat their way around.

This goes with Jesus saying after told they knew him:

I don't know you...

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (, February 16, 2005.

SO...we need racism and national insult on Ask Jesus now?

Grow up Harry...

-- ZAR (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), February 16, 2005.

Elpidio, isn't than an unorthodox view of purgatory?

My understanding was that those who entered into this state ARE heaven-bound, but they must be purified first.

-- Luke Juarez (, February 17, 2005.

I also find my post highly ironic

-- Luke Juarez (, February 17, 2005.

Elpidio? Are we "drunks"? I can't remember ever visiting any cantinas with you. Hey, come to think of it, we've never met in person. Perhaps Harry has us confused with some of his "friends". BTW, Enchiladas Suizas are always a fine dish for a casual lunch, Mexican or not.


-- rod (, February 17, 2005.

For the record:

Elpidio and I are Americans. Our roots are more than likely Spanish- Mexican. So, Harry is a little off on his nationalism. Also, I have never ever gotten drunk. I do believe that getting drunk is a sin. But, I see nothing sinful in "drinking" with a meal or celebration. Habitual anything can become a problem, of course. We have only one Master.

Now, as far as "sucking" up to anyone here in this forum? I'll say it again. I do not agree with Elpidio's theology or doctrine. He has his faith, I have mine. We have tangled our discussions about it in emails and forums. So, that is evidence that we are independent of each other's views. But, he is a moderator. He has the keys to this forum. It would be crazy to rock the boat too harshly; we'd all wind up falling out of the boat. So, don't go confusing respect for authority with "sucking" up.

BTW, Elpidio did you enjoy the 20 lbs. of Valentine's chocolates I sent you? :)


-- rod (, February 17, 2005.

Rod , I really hate chocolat :(

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

Life has a lot to offer , why some people never sees it that way ??

Like the lottery , if I don't win , bad luck , next time , maybe better !!

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), February 17, 2005.

Life is very peculiar. I'm the type that will not ever miss work, never. If I'm sick, I'm still at work. I have a ton of sick leaves piled up. I could miss a year and not be docked. Funny, I was so sick of work, I wound up at the emergency room one day. I missed work for that day. I felt guilty for getting ill. You know what? I needed time off. I realized that our lives do have meaning outside of our careers. I sometimes wonder if God looks at us and decides to help us out. We think that He is cruel for bringing pain and suffering to our lives. No. I think that we get a nudge on the shoulders so that we won't go off course and really mess up our lives for real. The lottery? I avoid the lottery. The worse thing about the lottery is that I might win. Then, major problems could happen.


-- rod (, February 17, 2005.

life has a lot to offer,it's true...but when you lost complete faith in yourself and your life and when there's nothing that can cheer you that moment all life has to offer is torment and pain...

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), February 17, 2005.

Well, of course, SDQA. That's why we have to hold on even when the pain and suffering seems like too much. Why should we give the victory to life's sufferings? We have victory when we overcome those trials. Sometimes it is ok to release those things that we wanted so passionately. It hurts to let go. We feel dead when we let go. But, in time, life comes back to us. I have been there. She was the most beautiful woman to enter my life. She was my reason for living, then she left me. Of course, if we do not feel the horrible pains of loss, we aren't human anymore. But, we learn from that pain, we know how to prepare for a better life, a better love, a better understanding. We don't cash it all in and call it quits. There is a better life waiting for us. Some have found it, some are still in anticipation for a new resurrection.


-- rod (, February 17, 2005.

The woman who suffered labor pains did so because life is worth the pains. She endured what it takes because life is so very precious. Think of the sacrifices that are made by others so that life may continue. There is a time for joy and a time for sorrow. How can one exist without the other?


-- rod (, February 17, 2005.

The lottery? I avoid the lottery. The worse thing about the lottery is that I might win. Then, major problems could happen

It depends on how you manage the money !! Most of the winners , get freaky nuts , spend so much at one time , 'cause they don't know how they spend/save it !! Than , suddenly , you've got "friends" , until you're bankrupt !! They quit/leave you , one by one , even maybe you get a divorce , suddenly you live on the edge , some will try push you deeper , except for the real old friends , they will help you , allow them to help you !!

Money is not always dirty !! ;)

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), February 17, 2005.

I agree; money is not always dirty. It is, though, the root of all evil. Yes, I know. I didn't want to preach.

If I had 72 million $, like the Beverly Hillbillies, I'd still teach. I would build my own music hall fully equipped with musical instruments and stuff. I'd visit Elpidio's newly established church and then, probably, be ask to leave as soon as Elpidio knew what I was up to. Just kidding, Elpidio.


-- rod (, February 17, 2005.

Technically, the love of money is a root of evil, not money itself, nor THE only root.

-- Luke Juarez (, February 17, 2005.

Yes, I should have been more specific.


-- rod (, February 17, 2005.

Well, my version deminishes the severity perhaps. I know what it's like to thirst for money, not to have "stuff" but to get out of debt. It's an addiction of the mind like pornography, not substance.

-- Luke Juarez (, February 17, 2005.

Valentine's was such a long day for me, Rod, I did not get to taste the chocolates my wife gave me. After taken care of my university class yesterday I took on the sweetnes of life.Maybe some 400 + calories.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (, February 17, 2005.

Actually, Luke purgatory is not the way pictured by catholics as a place of a lesser torment or in some Protestant circles as the door to Heaven.

I myself did not believe in purgatory until 1994. My brother was the first to actually dream it in response to my father's death. The my other brother. Then.....Mine started around 2002, that I remember.

For me it made a lot of sense. Why should God Yahweh send people to Hell if they acted bad? Doesn't God tell the difference between casual sins, serious sins,...?

Since everyone sins at one time or another, then we are destined to Hell. But because God Yahweh does distinguish between bad and serious sins, then many more go into purgatory.

Can tell how many are in the Hell of Darkness since it is dark. Only the crying , sobbing, screaming,...are heard.

As for purgatory: I saw more people who commited suicide there. Minimum penalty: 30 years. Highest I saw: 800 years. I was surprised to find a lot of women in there. More women than men.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (, February 17, 2005.

I guess child bearing wasn't punishment enough

-- Luke Juarez (, February 17, 2005.

suicide... i never liked that word. suicide bombers, depressed suicide. they do it out of depression then it is sin. They feel trapped and never go to God or do but are not patient enough to wait. Then they want to run away from the pain. So they kill themselves. Zarove is right. It depends on motivation although I cant find any examples where suicide might be good. Kamikaze in war might be OK i guess. Im not sure because I know a lot about war but never liked them myself.

-- JoeKP (, February 18, 2005.

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