How could Jesus be God if he says this as he dies? This is only one verse but there are many others where it seems Jesus is second to God and not actually God himself. Is this not a problem to the Christian Trinity?

-- J- (Questioner@askjeeves.com), February 26, 2005

Answers

bump

-- bump (bumppmub@bumpmail.com), February 26, 2005.

What you have to keep in mind is that Jesus is both fully God AND fully man. At times He speaks in a way that clearly reveals His divinity (forgiving men's sins; commanding the sea to be still). These time leave no doubt that He is God, and therefore is equal to God the Father. At other times He speaks in a way that clearly reveals His humanity ("I thirst"; "Father, why have you forsaken me?"). These times, as well as the fact that He died, leave no doubt that He was fully human. That is the mystery of the Incarnation - fully God and fully man simultaneously. The fact that He is God doesn't negate the fact that He is as human as we are; and the fact that He is fully human doesn't make Him any less than the Father.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), February 26, 2005.

What you must understand is that here Jesus is not referring to a literal abandonment by God, but rather is referencing Psalm 22 which is a prophecy regarding the death and subsequent salvation of man by the Messiah. of course God didnt forsake Jesus, but the psalm makes clear that God would stand by while the Messiah was killed.

Referencing this quote AS HE DIED showed the pharisees who were standing there that their interpretation of the scriptures (which demanded the Messiah as a warrior king who would deliver israel) were wrong and that the Messiah was to be persecuted and killed according to this prophecy which they had not accounted for.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), February 26, 2005.

J

Jesus is actually quoting scripture! See Psalms 22:1

Also, the Holy Trinity is a Divine Mystery one taken on faith.

Best Regards,

-- Big Dave (big.dave@earthlink.net), February 26, 2005.

Paul seems to be faster on the keyboard and more articulate than I!

-- Big Dave (big.dave@eathlink.net), February 26, 2005.

Well what about the verse Trinitarians use to show Jesus' divinity. In this verse, "he was also calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God." (John 5:18)

But if you put this in context you see what Jesus has to say in the very next verse in reply, "Therefore, in answer, Jesus went on to say to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things the Son also does in like manner." (John 5:19)

Does this not show that Jesus was correcting them for believing he was equal to the Father?

-- J- (Questioner@askjeeves.com), February 26, 2005.

Paul seems to be faster on the keyboard and more articulate than I!

quicker on the keyboard? maybe... more articulate? neh, probably just more long winded.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), February 26, 2005.

But if you put this in context ... Does this not show that Jesus was correcting them for believing he was equal to the Father?

No, "J". Rather it is you who need to see the whole thing in a broader "context." Keep reading the verses in John 5 (below), and you will see how Jesus shows himself to be equal to God in his divinity. (Also, you seem to have missed it when someone, above, told you that Jesus is one Person who has two natures, divinity and humanity. Jesus's human nature, equal to ours, is "below" his divine nature and his Father's, but Jesus's divine nature is equal to the Father's.)

18 For this reason the Jews tried all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath but he also called God his own father, making himself equal to God.

19 Jesus answered and said to them {quoting an old proverb on apprenticeship}, "Amen, amen, I say to you, a son cannot do anything on his own, but only what he sees his father doing; for what he does, his son will do also.

20 For the Father loves his Son and shows him everything that he himself does, and he will show him greater works than these, so that you may be amazed.

21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives life, so also does the Son give life to whomever he wishes.

22 Nor does the Father judge anyone, but he has given all judgment to his Son, 23 so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father.

-- (ronnie@why.com), February 26, 2005.