You shall not kill

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In "Strive to build a culture of life.." thread we talked about the fact that the US is (now was) the last country that still had the death penalty for juvenilles.

No doubt you've heard that the US Supreme Court finally ruled against that:

While being last is unfortunate, congratulations on finally taking a step as a country towards keeping that ever important commandment.

-- Pat Thompson (pat.thompson.45@gmail.com), March 02, 2005

Answers

bump

-- One who bumps (bump@sendmenigereanscammail.com), March 02, 2005.

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court yesterday abolished the death penalty for juveniles, ruling that it is excessive and cruel to execute a person who was younger than 18 when the crime was committed.

The US still has Capitol Punishment, just nto for those under 18 when the crime occured...

Likewise, Thou shalt not Kill refers to private citesens murdering people, not to a curt sentencing someone to death...

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), March 02, 2005.


Pat,

The Catholic Church has never been against the death penalty used in extreme cases. The Vatican City State even had the death peanalty as a punishment for anyone who attempted to kill the Holy Father up until the 1960's.

I'm sure you're aware of what our Church teaches on this.

I am in more favor of using the eletric chair. I believe hanging is still legal in a few states for a few rare exceptions that are on death row before the law was changed....

May God bless us all!

-- - (David@excite.com), March 02, 2005.


To me "You shall not kill" is clear enough.

-- Pat Thompson (pat.thompson.45@gmail.com), March 02, 2005.

“The Catholic Church has never been against the death penalty used in extreme cases.” Don’t talk through your hat. I’m sure you’re NOT aware, or choose to ignore, what the Church teaches on this: – that States may administer death ONLY when there is no other way of protecting others from further murders by the offender. Regardless of how “extreme” his offences were. The Church has warmly applauded those States (the majority of countries) which have abolished the death penalty, and strongly encouraged other countries to follow their example.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), March 03, 2005.


I warmly applaud you too. It makes no difference; we need a capital punishment law on the books. Even if not ONE more execution ever takes place.

If a sentenced multiple murderer is granted clemency and his life is spared, that's perfectly acceptable. No one can object to that.

But he had to be sentenced to die. It was justified under the circumstances, no matter who objects. This is the only thing standing between new victims of OTHER heinous murderers in the future; a LAW against murder with real consequences.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), March 03, 2005.


Most countries don’t even have capital punishment “on the books” any more. Some have been in that situation for 100 years and have survived without a rash of murders.

“This is the only thing standing between new victims of OTHER heinous murderers in the future” You seem to be saying that capital punishment may be used in order to deter other would-be offenders. The Church does not accept this as an acceptable reason for capital punishment. Prevention of future murders by the offender to be executed is the only valid reason, and then only when capital punishment is the only way of achieving this.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), March 03, 2005.


listen up dudes

you claim to be christians right?

didn't your hero,your saviour,your role model,your GOD,jesus christ...,didn't he forgive the bad guy on the cross next to him?

what do you think jesus would do?do you think he would support death penalty?

didn't he save the adultress from stoning? while in those times it was the punishment by the law...

PEOPLE CAN CHANGE

you have no right to take someone's life unless there is no other way from preventing this person taking someone else's life

why is there a need for a death penalty?

when you can simply lock them up

in this case death is being applied as a punishment and not in order to save someone else's life,this is wrong,there are other ways of punishing people,you are not here to tell who is gonna die and who not,you're not god,you're a simple human being like we all are

didn't jesus say that he is gonna ask the blood out of your hands on the final day(or something like that)for all those who you didn't help to convert

well if you give someone a death penalty,this person can never convert again,if you would lock them up and let them stay alive they could learn about jesus,see their mistakes,start believing and trully repent...

also,many can take abuse of the death penalty,the us is far from a perfect country...

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), March 03, 2005.


Wow sqda, I actually agree with you on most points you have brought up.

This is a strange occurrence and defies all current scientific empirical evidence. :-)

But I agree, for the most part. With our modern jails and judicial system, the idea of a mass murderer being set loose is amazingly unlikely.

And no, I do not accept that the death penalty is a deterrent (sp?). It seems that anyone in a mental state that would see murder as a viable option is not going to give much weight to the potential outcomes.

Tim Kirschenheiter

-- Tim K. (tk4386@juno.com), March 03, 2005.


To me "You shall not kill" is clear enough.

I take it that you are not Catholic, Pat. The commandment, "You shall not kill," without the Church's proper interpretation of it, is NOT "clear enough." Well, it may seem "clear enough" to a Fundamentalist Selective-Literalist interpreter of the Bible! But people who use the intelligence God gave them know that "You shall not kill" does not equate to "You must never kill any living thing, under any circumstances" or "You are always forbidden to kill a human being."

what do you think jesus would do? do you think he would support death penalty?

We don't even need to speculate about this, because we KNOW that Jesus approved of the death penalty. Jesus is God, the Second Person of the Divine Trinity, and the Bible contains a variety of examples of God not merely approving, but ORDERING, people to be killed for various offenses (even offenses that we would not call "capital" today).

the Church teaches that States may administer death only when there is no other way of protecting others from further murders by the offender.

This is true. However, a person pointing this out to someone else must also point out that the Church teaches that it is up to the "State" (not the Church), in each specific case, to make the prudential judgment about whether or not there exists a fully reliable "way of protecting others from further murders by the offender." And that is why the Church, in real life, NEVER commands Catholic jurors or office-holders not to condemn or execute the guilty, and she NEVER accuses Catholic jurors or office-holders of having sinned when they do condemn or execute the guilty.

-- (OK@lets.go), March 03, 2005.



OK

HAVE YOU RED MY ENTIRE POST?

what an *****...

"the Church teaches that States may administer death only when there is no other way of protecting others from further murders by the offender."

[by locking him others are protected...]-sdqa

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), March 03, 2005.


Dear Steve, et al:
You apparently don't follow my reasoning. I didn't say ''execute them'' period. They're human beings, and ought to have a chance as long as they can't become repeat offenders.

You say, This is the only thing standing between new victims of OTHER heinous murderers in the future. ''You seem to be saying that capital punishment may be used in order to deter other would-be offenders.'' ----------------- AM I saying that ? ? ? ? ''The Church does not accept this as an acceptable reason for capital punishment.-------- '' What is an acceptable ''reason''--?

I believe ALL sentenced murderers have a right to appeal for clemency and hopefully receive it. Not ''using'' capital punishment at large. But the LAW should have teeth; and a law that can condemn you to death is DEFINITELY the single most persuasive deterrent to a vast number of violent criminals. Criminals who would be ENCOURAGED to murder you without any death penalty statute to impede them.

Some extemely violent people live today who might murder on a WHIM, not as result of necessity or reasoned motivations. If JUST SOME OF THEM would at least LIMIT their evil activity to necessity and incentives while not harming people who don't threaten them (helpless women, children, the aged) --on a caprice or for fun-- then it benefits everybody.

To abolish a statute that at least cuts the rate of senseless murders to some kind of minimum-- only RELAXES a natural anxiety such criminals must be forced to consider. They aren't deterred at the thought of imprisonment. It has to be a law with some finality in store for them.

You cite a reason like Church opposition without the least concern for those practical matters. I love the Catholic Church. I respect the Pope's (and your) feelings about sanctity of life. I also respect the Law. NOT for vengeance; but for imposing strict standards in our society.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), March 03, 2005.


Here are some interesting links: Is Capital Punishment a Deterrent? which says: And Facts about Deterrence and the Death Penalty which cites many studies that make it pretty clear that it is NOT a deterrant.

-- Pat Thompson (pat.thompson.45@gmail.com), March 03, 2005.

Dear Pat:

This stat refers to actual executions carried out.

I'm only referring to the deterrent results of keeping the Capital Punishment statute where it can do some good.

A statistic can be skewed. A dead victim can't be returned to life.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), March 03, 2005.


Hi Pat,

1. What are the stats on people who would have committed murder but decided not to, because of the death penalty?

2. Yes, the murder rate in the South increased by 2.1%, but how do we know it wouldn't have increased by 10% if there were no death penalty there?

The answer to these questions would be the only acceptable proof of whether the death penalty is a deterrant, and these questions are impossible to answer.

The stats you find on a website that is opposed to the death penalty are going to support the views of those who create the website in the first place. This also applies to websites that are pro death penalty.

I personally am undecided on this issue. But I think that if someone I love were murdered by a murderer who had already been to jail for murdering someone previously, I guess that would make my mind up pretty fast.

BTW, the commandment is "Thou shalt not murder. (The original Hebrew is "Lo ratzah." The word 'ratzah' implies an innocent victim, not a criminal.)

-- undecided (upinthe@ir.com), March 03, 2005.



The effectiveness of a punishment as a deterrent depends not on the severity of the punishment but on the certainty of it. If you are thinking of parking in a "no parking" zone, but a police officer is standing right there, you will be deterred, even though the punishment is small. But if you believe you are not going to get caught, then the severity of possible punishment becomes irrelevent. Who cares if a certain act merits extreme punishment, if you are sure you will not get caught and will not have to face that punishment? I'm not saying it is realistic to believe you won't get caught - but it is the mentality of most people who are engaged in committing a crime.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), March 03, 2005.

you are sure you will not get caught and will not have to face that punishment--? (Paul M.) In the same logical succession:

The ruthless murderer sees these points of view:

I won't be captured.
I'll be captured but given a long sentence which I am willing to serve, considering the incentive I feel today.
I'll murder this man for his fortune. It's worth the risk of being executed.
I may be imprisoned for murder; but they can't imprison me twice. I'll murder every guy in prison who messes with me.

And: Let the poor kid live. --If I kill him it might mean the gas chamber. Better not.---------- ? ? ?

And-- I killed him and his family. It won't get me the death penalty because there is no death penalty. Why should I be sorry?

-------->> Then, an extreme; I didn't get away with murdering that family. I must've been crazy to do it, look what it's going to cost me; execution. Unless the Governor decides to commute my sentence to life without possibility of parole. Thank God; I still have that chance under the Law.

--And LAST, finally: They're sure to execute me today; I've exhausted every appeal. But I repent of all my sins. I KNEW what could happen if I committed those ruthless murders. This is what I deserve, My God (SAINT DISMAS). I've received Your sacraments and now I can die in peace. Thank you Jesus, for saving me in the end.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), March 03, 2005.


sdqa wrote:

you have no right to take someone's life unless there is no other way from preventing this person taking someone else's life

You're talking about self-defence ??

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), March 03, 2005.


I have heard about cases where 16-17's have commited crimes and murders in COLD BLOOD believing nothing serious would happen to them because of their age. So why is it cruel to execute a teen if the insane maniac is killing in cold blood and is showing no signs of remorse or sorrow? What if they are terrorists and set off a dirty bomb then are caught?

Not to change the subject but if this country is going to spend millions of dollars on keeping mass murderers alive, then WHY NOT TERRI SCHIAVO? Who knows if she will come out of her comma, she at least is not a murderer or criminal. That just burns me the heck right up!

-- Jason (enchantedfire5@yahoo.com), March 03, 2005.


But if you believe you are not going to get caught, then the severity of possible punishment becomes irrelevent. Who cares if a certain act merits extreme punishment, if you are sure you will not get caught and will not have to face that punishment?

The writer of the above begins with a false premise, so he ends up with a false conclusion.

NO ONE, except a few mentally ill or mentally handicapped people, fit the above language. No sane person of at least average intelligence "believes" he is "not going to get caught" or is "sure" that he "will not get caught" (quoting from the above). Instead, every sane person of at least average intelligence HOPES that he will not get caught. He may "believe" that he is not likely to get caught, but knows that he just might be.

Now, the knowledge that he might be caught and executed is enough to deter most potential criminals. But if ALL possibility of execution is taken away, then the strongest possible deterrent is taken away. That is why we are going to see many more murders committed by adolescents in the years ahead. They no longer will be fearing "Old Sparky." (I just put that last sentence in there for D@E.)

-- (OK@lets.go), March 03, 2005.


“the Church, in real life, NEVER commands Catholic jurors or office-holders not to condemn or execute the guilty, and she NEVER accuses Catholic jurors or office-holders of having sinned when they do condemn or execute the guilty.”

And the Church, in real life, NEVER fails to demand that capital punishment NOT be administered to any person whose case is brought to its attention, no matter how heinous their crimes.

Sdqa, I actually agree with you. Now I feel dizzy.

“why is it cruel to execute a teen if the insane maniac is killing in cold blood and is showing no signs of remorse or sorrow?” Because everyone recognizes that kids of 17 or less (the US still allows execution of “teens” aged 18 or 19) have a much greater capacity to mature and become more responsible.

OK and Eugene, countless stats in States and countries around the world show that your apparently plausible scenario of criminals seeing abolition of CP as a "license to kill", does NOT occur in real life. Invariably, when CP is abolished, the murder rate stays the same or goes down.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), March 03, 2005.


''-- CP as a "license to kill", does NOT occur in real life. Invariably, when CP is abolished, the murder rate stays the same or goes down.''

Dear Steve,

If we conceded you this point (IF) it wouldn't have a direct bearing on the Law. The LAW is our secular Teacher helping citizens to CARE about what is good and what is evil. If the law is abolished, Good vs. Evil becomes a matter of indifference in many criminal minds.

One could say it already IS, and the only thing that cancels EVIL in a free society is capital punishment. I know it's been cliched; it's very true anyway: Does CP deter murder? Of course; not even ONE executed murderer is ever seen murdering again. If the Law should accuse him, he's never going to be convicted in any court.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), March 03, 2005.


"I have heard about cases where 16-17's have commited crimes and murders in COLD BLOOD believing nothing serious would happen to them because of their age. So why is it cruel to execute a teen if the insane maniac is killing in cold blood and is showing no signs of remorse or sorrow? What if they are terrorists and set off a dirty bomb then are caught?"

[but WHY death penalty? what does that make better? nothing

read my ****** post you too jason

PEOPLE CAN CHANGE

just think of st paul...or the thief on the cross

"you have no right to take someone's life unless there is no other way from preventing this person taking someone else's life

You're talking about self-defence ?? "

[yes...in every kind of way]-sdqa

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), March 04, 2005.


SDQA, there is consequences for the sins we commit. We may be forgiven of our sins, but consequences will still come. We may go to a priest and confess a theivery of a brand new car lately, and may be forgiven, but will have to return the car and most likely face the charge of grand theft auto. Likewise we may confess a murder and will have to turn ourselves in as the priest would suggest I'm sure, but we'll have to face the consequence of being behind bars for the rest of our life.

Lets just say a dirty bomb went off in NYC, and it was found to be from two teenage terrorists from the ages 16-17. They killed hundereds of people, and yet show NO sorrow and only say "praise to god." I'm sorry, call me what you want, but these two should be executed with NO HESITATION WHAT-SO-EVER!!!!

-- Jason (enchantedfire5@yahoo.com), March 04, 2005.


What does the death penalty make better for a murderer who has no sorrow or remorse and shows no sign of change you say SDQA? I'll tell you, it makes the world a better and safer place to live!

Let me ask you, are you against abortion from any stage of it? I hope you will answer yes since your so quick to be for mass murderers.

On many occasions I do not like the death penalty, but when a case like I said comes along, then I have not a problem.

-- Jason (enchantedfire5@yahoo.com), March 04, 2005.


listen to me dude

death penalty doesn't save others people's lives,there are many other effecitve ways from preventing the criminal threatning innocent people,there are no single benefits of death penalty

the person doesn't have to repent immediately...he can repent after 20 years

people can really change

one other thing about death penalty is that people simply can take abuse of it in the somewhat corrupt justice system...just go and see the green mile for example...

i am against any kind of death penalty and not only against it for ppl below 18

have you maybe red some books by doctor daniel g. amen?

if you didn't,then i think you should,it's explained and proven there how certain chemical things,head trauma's or other can seriously damage the brains and change the ppl's behaviour,when certain brain centers are damages people can show very disturbed behaviour,he once did a spect(the recording of someone's brain functions)of a high school guy who just shot many people in his school and he was shocked how much his brain was damaged...

death penalty simple isn't the solution,

1/ppl can make abuse of it

2/innocent may be condemned to death

3/it takes forever the chance away from the person to change and become a better person,you are not here to tell how many chances someone gets,you can inprison them as punishment and to protect others,but you can't take away their life,YOU ARE NOT GOD

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), March 04, 2005.


didn't jesus say that he is gonna ask the blood out of your hands on the final day(or something like that)for all those who you didn't help to convert

well if you give someone a death penalty,this person can never convert again,if you would lock them up and let them stay alive they could learn about jesus,see their mistakes,start believing and trully repent...

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), March 04, 2005.


"Ppl can make abuse of it." Yes SDQA, you now see how a system can become corrupt because of MAN. So then, why can you not see that with the RCC? You yet bash the Catholic church for it's corruptness but praise criminals.

With all my heart I hope all men change as the Lord does who is patient. But you have to protect human life. So you are telling me that if a NUCLEAR bomb goes off in lets say Los Angoles or NYC and the terrorists are caught red handed, you would just lock them up? What about the THOUSANDS of people they killed who were bad people or unbelievers? Now they will NEVER get a chance to change to become a good person because they are dead. And if we listened to people like you (no offense) then it would be possible for these insane murderers to escape and/or do the crime again!

Yes people who kill others in cold blood are insane and much of it comes from phycological problems. And if you can not keep these people from harming others then they should be put to death.

Don't start calling me a hater of people. I am just sick of all this up side down right/wrong today. My point is simply if you can not pervent these people from harming others, then to death they should go. God set up the death penalty in the Old Testament days. Why did He have to do that and do you agree with Him for doing that? Someone who was found picking up stones on the Sabbath was even put to death. I'll tell you if we had more strict rules in America there would be far less crime. But Americans are spoiled and with the help of the ACLU they can get away with anything. But oh you can go and commit abortion, that's fine or starve Terri Schiavo to death, but lets let Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussien, and if he was ever caught Adolf Hitler live. This country is a slaughter of the INNOCENT and as Pope John Paul 2 said, "A culture of Death."

-- Jason (enchantedfire5@yahoo.com), March 05, 2005.


"Yes people who kill others in cold blood are insane and much of it comes from phycological problems. And if you can not keep these people from harming others then they should be put to death."

[you can,by locking them up,once again i ask you,what is the gain of death penalty? what makes it better than locking them up?]-sdqa

"God set up the death penalty in the Old Testament days. Why did He have to do that and do you agree with Him for doing that? Someone who was found picking up stones on the Sabbath was even put to death."

[this god is for me more of a satan then a god,i do not believe in this god...]-sdqa

"I'll tell you if we had more strict rules in America there would be far less crime"

[what kind of strict rules?]-sdqa

death penalty is evil...and ppl can make abuse of it,certainly in the usa..

"Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussien, and if he was ever caught Adolf Hitler live. "

[you forgot george w. bush...]-sdqa

"But oh you can go and commit abortion"

[an embryo can't have the same rights as living people,simple as that...,say whatever you want]-sdqa

...the more i am on this forum,the more i realise how ignorant the american people really are...yeah half of the country votes for bush...that says enough i think

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), March 05, 2005.


And the Church, in real life, NEVER fails to demand that capital punishment NOT be administered to any person whose case is brought to its attention, no matter how heinous their crimes.

Steve, I trust that you just had a momentary lapse when you used the inaccurate word, "demand." I trust that it was just an accidental exagerration or the result of innocent ignorance on your part, rather than an intentional attempt to deceive.

The fact is that the pope never DEMANDS "that capital punishment NOT be administered." Instead, he pleads with secular leaders that they be lenient toward the condemned.

"Pleading" is not anything at all like "Demanding." If, as you wrongly claimed, the pope "DEMANDS" that heads of state commute death sentences, then it would follow logically that he would DEMAND that Catholic judges and jurors never impose death sentences. In fact, the pope has never DEMANDED either thing. Therefore, the words you quoted from me were correct:

“the Church, in real life, NEVER commands Catholic jurors or office- holders not to condemn or execute the guilty, and she NEVER accuses Catholic jurors or office-holders of having sinned when they do condemn or execute the guilty.”

-- (OK@lets.go), March 05, 2005.


Let me tell you something sdqa, if your are comparing Bush to Osoma Bin Laden or Hitler then your you've got problems with your brain. If you live in America, say things such as you do about Bush, and think he falls into the catergory of Bin Laden, YOU WOULD BE PUT TO DEATH my friend. But those who oppose Bush are not. Personaly I myself have had enough of Bush. He's no conservative but a liberal if you ask me.

Yeah, put these mass murderers in jail, the ones who kill people every day in cold blood prasing their own god. From talking to soilders and those that are in war against these people I tell you, YOU CAN NOT REASON WITH THESE KIND OF PEOPLE!!!!! What in the world is wrong with you?? YEAH GIVE THEM THE CHANCE TO ESCAPE OR EVEN SET FREE BY OUR WONDERFUL ACLU AND HAVE THEM KILL MORE VICTIMS OVER AND OVER AGAIN. WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU??????????????????????

I do not agree on many points for the death penalty but if you cannot stop one from hurting others and if you are up against people who want to convert you or KILL YOU NO QUESTIONS ASKED THEN THEY HAVE TO BE PUT TO DEATH! BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU SDQA INNOCENT VICTIMS WILL LOSE THERE LIVES AND JUSTICE WILL NEVER BE SERVED.

Abortion is any point where the human being is MURDERED of any stage SDQA. You only commented on embyos. So are you against partial birth abortion or the stage prior to that? I hope so but I would not be surprised.

Yes I'm being very emotional right now which is why I've been speaking in CAPS because I care about human beings and life and I do not want to see someone blow up a city or town or anything because of all the marching liberals protesting against HUMAN LIFE. They do not care about anything except their own selfish lustful desires and they hate the Church, the family life, and care more about saving the lifes of these mass murderers than they are INNOCENT CHILDREN, MENTALY RETARDED, THE ELDERLY, AND MILLIONS OF CIVILIANS THAT ARE AT RISK EVERYDAY!!!!!!

Then why do you still come in here SDQA because all you do is give YOUR AND YOURS ONLY POINT OF VEIW. You NEVER have anything positive to say about Catholicism and continue to despise it. I bet you haven't even tried to humbly learn about it but just continue to go along with the LIBERAL MEDIA!

The ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH and IT'S TRUE FOLLOWERS has shown more sympothy and given more help than ANY OTHER SYSTEM ON EARTH because of our Lord we follow JESUS CHRIST.

Forgive me for my impatience and loss of temper but I can only take so much sensless talk. You can't get blood from a rock.

-- Jason (enchantedfire5@yahoo.com), March 06, 2005.


Do not murder. "Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed." [Gn. 9:6] (Murderers –intentional killers of the innocent– are to be put to death. Just prior to the time this commandment was given, God had killed –caused the death of– all but eight of the earth's inhabitants. All of those who had been associated with grave evils. God sets only good example.)

In the eyes of God the earth was corrupt and full of lawlessness. When God saw how corrupt the earth had become, since all mortals led depraved lives on earth, he said to Noah: "I have decided to put an end to all mortals on earth; the earth is full of lawlessness because of them. So I will destroy them and all life on earth. – Gn. 6:11-13 The angels too, who did not keep to their own domain but deserted their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains, in gloom, for the judgment of the great day. Likewise, Sodom, Gomorrah, and the surrounding towns, which, in the same manner as they, indulged in sexual promiscuity and practiced unnatural vice, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire. – Jude 1:6- 7 Ref. 2 Pet. 2:4-10 ). God killed, but was not a murderer of the innocent. God set good example to be followed, not bad example.

-- - (David@excite.com), March 06, 2005.


2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another's life, the common good of the family or of the state. 2240

2266 Preserving the common good of society requires rendering the aggressor unable to inflict harm. For this reason the traditional teaching of the Church has acknowledged as well-founded the right and duty of legitimate public authority to punish malefactors by means of penalties commensurate with the gravity of the crime, not excluding, in cases of extreme gravity, the death penalty. 1897- 1898 For analogous reasons those holding authority have the right to repel by armed force aggressors against the community in their charge. 2308 The primary effect of punishment is to redress the disorder caused by the offense. When his punishment is voluntarily accepted by the offender, it takes on the value of expiation. 1449 Moreover, punishment has the effect of preserving public order and the safety of persons. Finally punishment has a medicinal value; as far as possible it should contribute to the correction of the offender.67

2306 2267 If bloodless means are sufficient to defend human lives against an aggressor and to protect public order and the safety of persons, public authority should limit itself to such means [this statement is clearly in opposition to Gn. 9:6 and the tradition of the Church], because they better correspond to the concrete conditions of the common good [God has clearly stated that the common good is best served by civil law executing murderers] and are more in conformity to the dignnity of the human person. [The dignity of each innocent murdered person has been forever lost to this world.]

-- - (David@excite.com), March 07, 2005.


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