Elpidio, Just answer the question, that is all you have to do...

Tap dancing around this subject is not authorized...

-- Kevin Walker ("navyscporetired@comcast.net"), March 09, 2005.

Whatever question you posed before I have answered, Kevin. But, rephrase whatever question is in your mind.

I still have more than 40 years to asnwer it.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 10, 2005.

Elpidio, Actually you didn't answer the scriptures that I quoted to you...

I will post them for your response(s)one at a time...

God says in Col 2:8-10, "8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power."

Jesus is God contrary to what you believe...

-- Kevin Walker ("navyscporetired@comcast.net"), March 10, 2005.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 10, 2005

Answers

W'ell see, Kevin.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 10, 2005.

Elpidio,

Go ahead and respond to the first one posted above...

-- Kevin Walker ("navyscporetired@comcast.net"), March 10, 2005.

To the Colossians 2:8-1o Kevin?

That is simple Old Testamnet (Tenach) wording:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

This quote orioginated from this passage where Joshoa and Jesus are the same word in Hebrew.

Num 27:18 And YHWH said unto Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom [is] the spirit, and lay thine hand upon him;

Notice Kevin how God YHWH's spirit rests on people, then they prophesy:

Num 11:25 And YHWH came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that [was] upon him, and gave [it] unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, [that], when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied

Num 11:26 But there remained two [of the] men in the camp, the name of the one [was] Eldad, and the name of the other Medad: and the spirit rested upon them; and they [were] of them that were written, but went not out unto the tabernacle: and they prophesied in the camp.

This one was once quoted by the Pope in 1980. I turned the prophecy by Moses against him since he refused to listen to me. If you read the Spanish letters I sent the Pope you will se this quote . He wanted people to be prophets but when one does he denies them.

Num 11:29 And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all YHWH'S people were prophets, [and] that YHWH would put his spirit upon them!

1Sa 10:10 And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them.

1Sa 16:13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.

..........

So Kevin, as you can see this is an O.T. expression.

Nothing more.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 11, 2005.

Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father, but go to My brethren and say to them, I am ascending to My Father and your Father, My God and your God. - John 20:17

Do not call anyone on earth your father, for One is your Father, He who is in Heaven. And do not be called teachers, for One is your Teacher, the Christ. Matt 23:9-10

Then Jesus said, "Away with you Satan, for it is written, "You shall worship the Lord your God and only Him shall you serve." Matt 4:10

-- temple (jahsmine@netzero.com), March 11, 2005.

And yet if i do judge, My judgement is true, for I am not alone but I am with the Father who sent Me. It is also written in your law that the testimony of two men is true. I am One who bears witness of Myself, and the Father who sent Me bears witness of Me. - John 8:16

-- temple (jahsmine@netzero.com), March 11, 2005.

Elpidio,

I figured you would try to twist this passage somehow to fit your preconceived and illogical conclusions concerning Jesus...

What Paul wrote in Colossians 2:8-10 through inspiration of the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with any of the verses that you quoted...

Numbers 27:18 states, "And the LORD said to Moses: "Take Joshua the son of Nun with you, a man in whom is the Spirit, and lay your hand on him;"

Since when did Joshua have "all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" as stated in Colossians 2:9??? Nice try but you do not even come close to trying to explain away this passage...

Your quoting of Numbers 11:25 also does not help you for this passage states, "Then the LORD came down in the cloud, and spoke to him, and took of the Spirit that was upon him, and placed the same upon the seventy elders; and it happened, when the Spirit rested upon them, that they prophesied, although they never did so again."

I can assure that none of these men had "all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" as stated in Colossians 2:9 for this is not even hinted at in either passage that you quoted...

You also quoted Numbers 11:29 which states, "Then Moses said to him, "Are you zealous for my sake? Oh, that all the LORD's people were prophets and that the LORD would put His Spirit upon them!" This passage also does not prove your assertion that Jesus is not God... Just because men in the Old Testament had the Holy Spirit dwelling in them is no proof that Jesus is not God... I can assure you that these men, just as those in the New Testament who had the gifts of the Holy Spirit did not have "all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" as it is stated concerning Jesus in Colossians 2:9...

You quoted 1 Samuel 10:10 which states, "When they came there to the hill, there was a group of prophets to meet him; then the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them."

Once again you offer no proof, just your assertion that these prophets had "all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" as it is stated concerning Jesus in Colossians 2:9...

You quoted 1 Samuel 16:13 which states, "Then Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers; and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel arose and went to Ramah."

This last passage you quoted does show that David had the Holy Spirit dwelling in him however, you failed to show once again to prove that he had "all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" as it is stated concerning Jesus in Colossians 2:9...

This is "not" just an Old Testament expression as you assert...

Would you like to try again???

-- Kevin Walker ("navyscporetired@comcast.net"), March 11, 2005.

I am using the same Bible you are using so a snot to make you feel that bad, Kevin.

I am not as young as Ortiz. I have spent more time meditating on these things han he or even faith have.

Even though I was born a Catholic and there was no Bible in my house, my godfather was the helper to the priest: El Sacristan. He had one. So I began to read it since I was 11.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 11, 2005.

"all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" is a Greek expression translating the Hebrew, Kevin.

Hebrew doesn't use the word "Godhead" since in Hebrew we get YHWH ehad (Yahweh is one). The word head is rosh, meaning first. Thus Rosh Hashanah, meaning the first of the year, that is, as we Christians say: January 1, but for them any day in September when their year begins.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 12, 2005.

Elpidio,

You wrote, ""all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" is a Greek expression translating the Hebrew, Kevin."

Please explain how it is a "Greek expression translating the Hebrew" since the New Testament was written in Greek and the verse I quoted was not taken from any Old Testament passages???

-- Kevin Walker ("navyscporetired@comcast.net"), March 12, 2005.