Breaking News - Deaths At Colorado High School : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Our entire office of several hundred people are listening to the most sickening confirmation by the Jefferson County Sheriff:

Estimated 25 students/teachers killed in High School assault.


-- kalani & katiuska (, April 20, 1999


Yes and some fool reporter asking the police chief if the legislators should pass a law outlawing such assaults.

The assult seems to have made use of numerous pipe bombs....let's outlaw pipe!

-- LM (, April 20, 1999.

Yes, and students are giving interviews and telling of police ordering them to run and making them leave the sides of their injured and fallen classmates. Triage. Incomprehensible. Bloodbath. And again a reporter said the shooters talked about Y2K.

-- Leska (, April 20, 1999.

K&K, my entire office of 1 is sitting here watching and listening to the same sickening and heart breaking reports as your office.

Leska, I saw that too. Somehow I think our cause has just suffered quite a blow.

As a twin, I was bent over by the news that a father had just been told that his twin girls were both among the dead. A large fear for a twin is to have the other part of them die and I know I share that fear. Even so, as a father, I don't know if I could continue to live knowing that my child had been killed.

What an awful, tragic day.

Mike ==============================================================

-- Michael Taylor (, April 20, 1999.

How sad! And to think this is only the beginning to the chaos that will continue throughout the year.

-- saddenedatheart (, April 20, 1999.

My God.

I can't tell you Mike how much I can empathize with you, being a twin myself.

up to 25 Dead.

And an as yet unconfirmed motive. I'm just waiting to hear about the reports that Leska has heard.

This can turn from bad to worse to the unthinkable if this is any kind of a precursor to the next eight months.

I certainly pray it isn't.

Did someone mention a Rosary?


-- Thomas G. Hale (, April 20, 1999.

Leska,I heard the reference to Y2K also,from a phone conversation with one of the male students who made it soon as it was out of his mouth,the transmission was cut off.. Did anyone see the footage of the poor bloodied guy hanging out the window ? Word now is that the 2 gunmen were found dead of apparently self inflicted wounds in the library... I've been watching since this first broke into the news,couldn't take it any more,had to come check with all you people...Cynthia

-- Cynthia Yanicko (, April 20, 1999.

my God....

-- art welling (, April 20, 1999.

Awful! Another gruesome symptom of society coming apart at the seams. Like a steam boiler running at full steam for too long. I fear an explosion is coming and that we will all be in a world of hurt-one way or another. Can martial law be all that far behind? Most irresponsible Americans will scream for their government to protect them-to do SOMETHING. They will want a return on their outrageous tax "investment"!

-- Jeremiah Jetson (laterthan@uthink.y2k), April 20, 1999.

Cynthia, yes, I saw that one too. Three out of the four reports using the word "Y2K" were cut off just after the "word." Kind of strange.

But considering how much every station is giving this ongoing coverage, these tiny mentions are just blips which one wouldn't notice unless sensitized as we all are. A really terrible report is one where a father and son report they called police three times in the past about one of the killers, detailing pipe bombs and death threats, and nobody took them seriously.

Just yesterday we were trying to tell a top policeman that having a New Year's Eve party with 100,000 with alcohol downtown in a cramped outdoor square with overflow spilling everywhere maybe is not the very best party plan. Our concern was airily dismissed, and the policeman said, "We'll hammer them down ahead of time," meaning some magical way they'd know ahead of time who would go nutso at rollover and those ppl wouldn't be invited? To the sanctioned public party?

We are giving up trying to reach out to .gov because they are unremediable. Nice, well-meaning, some OK at biz as usual, but Y2K clueless.

And not in the least truly wondering what the weeples' concerns are.

xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Leska (, April 20, 1999.

In moments that scum Clinton will talk.. I have no doubt he will look for political milage out of this.

I have kids.... I have lost kids... I know what those parents are facing.......

this did not happen when I was growing up... Only in the last few years... the world is getting sicker by the minute

-- art welling (, April 20, 1999.

One of the shooters had a web page. They were wearing military fatigues. They were shooting "jocks" who had made fun of them, and shooting people of color. Today is Hitlers birthday and the webpage had something about that on it.

-- Cherri (, April 20, 1999.

God help us.

-- Ranger (One, April 20, 1999.

school admin/police on now. Never heard of these kids before. When I was in school it was no different. Teachers/admin would never listen, never cared

-- art welling (, April 20, 1999.

May Christ have mercy on us! Thanks a lot Madeline Murray Ohare. It never hurt the kids to pray.

-- Betty Alice (, April 20, 1999.

Bubba speaks in two minutes.... CNN

-- art welling (, April 20, 1999.

OT - Colorado shooting- Good God what is wrong with us

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Leska (, April 20, 1999.

Twenty-five possibly dead, twenty hospitalized...a sherriff talking to a reporter about the fact that media coverage might influence someone else to do the same...after the faces of Kosovo refugees night after night, now the faces of teenage refugees escaping their HIGH SCHOOL!!!!! I feel sick.

-- Leslie (***@***.net), April 20, 1999.

>And again a reporter said the shooters talked about Y2K.

Leska, do you have a source for that?

(Damn, now I sound like a reporter. Point being, if I can see this on the web, I'll include it in tomorrow's Review

Sad, sad situation...

-- pshannon (, April 20, 1999.

Art bell said it would be like this..... (shutup, gracie).

Some day some very motivated kid will assault some school in LA with an AK-47, killing any police officers stationed there, and proving that you cant make any place safe just by barricading the facility with razor wire and armed guards and metal detectors.

You cant get safety just by turning your world into an armed camp. It doesn't work.

-- Go ahead, load up n' shoot. (, April 20, 1999.


offering aid...


prevention..... (??)

quoting religous leader

condolences to parents.. people..


Questions from Press:

what can we do to stop this stuff (counseling... prevention (?))

Epidemic?? (Learn from this... yak yak....get facts..yak..)

What do YOU want to do to stop this? (Take time for facts... let community heal.. not speak now..)

*raucus noise*

('kids have access to guns'....yak yak..more later)

Are kids safe in schools?

(statistically yes..... explosives, grenades,... bad place to be 'today'.... study handbook....)

Bubba leaves

On the whole he backed down and was supportive to community. I feel he did make set up for big political play off this. We'll see.

-- art welling (, April 20, 1999.

I must say more. Time was that we went to school, we did what we were told, we respected our teachers, we respected our parents, we respected ourselves. We were not of the Dr. Spock flock, convinced by a generation before that we were special, that we deserved special treatment, that we were fully capable of self-determination, that nothing was more important than ME.

We had respect for our parents, our country, our president. We respected our flag, our history and ourselves. We had little time for the laggards, the lazy, the ne'er-do-wells. We believed in a day's work for a day's pay. We expected nothing of government, other than to protect our shores. We were a nation of achievers, of successes, of heroes. We were proud of our country, our morals and our abilities.

We knew that if we misbehaved at school, we got a trip to the assistant principal's office. We got the same thing when we got home. We have come to a nation where a parent raising his hand to his child may be hauled away in a squad car, charged with child abuse, the misdeed solemnly reported on the 6 o'clock news by a handsome puppet jerking to the pulls of some nameless, faceless, lieutenant of liberalism. It's happened again.

The seventh time in less than four years. Students run amok at a school. It must be the guns. It cannot possibly be the moral basement to which we have come. It cannot be the slow, abysmal slide to dependence on the state, the supine reliance on the welfare contributed and approved by others.

We are come to a sorry state, my friends, and we will soon pay the piper. God rest those poor children who died or were injured today. My heart goes out to the parents of those innocents, those children who never had the chance to undo what some of us who came before have done. Please be strong. I am so sorry.

-- Ranger (, April 20, 1999.



Members of a gang called TRENCHCOAT MAFIA may have been planning today's shooting at a suburban high school in Colorado.

One user profile found on AMERICA ONLINE states: "Preparin' for the big april 20!! You'll all be sorry that day!"

The AOL handle "LCaress" warns of the April 20 date.

Another AOL member, using the handle "AzMstr17" warns about a fight against the "Power Boyz" -- and declares that "cOlUmBInE HigH ScHoOl SuCks".

Member Name: Jessie Location: 7th layer of hell NeAr DeNver Yo' Birthdate: August 13, 1982 Sex: Male Marital Status: ToSsInG My bItCh QuEeN's SalAd Hobbies: hAnGinG PoPpErs ExTaSSeeY BoYYee Ya Ya FloCkO SEaGuLLs Yo yO Computers: RhYdIn RUlZ ThE LAnD UnDer hiS BlA C K BooTz Occupation: TRENCH COAT MAFIA iN Da HoUse BoYeEeeeEeeEEEEEEsss, hAnGiN, baNgInn, fStiNg, ToSSin Da' SAlAd Yo yO Personal Quote: "fIgHt Da PoWeR BoYz.. tReNcH CoAt MaFiA RULZ!!!! cOlUmBInE HigH ScHoOl SuCks

One 10th-grader at the school says that he heard gunmen say "they were gonna kill all the jocks," seconds before one of them held a gun to his head. A student identifying himself as Aaron Cahon told KOA radio that he believes the gunmen belong to a group in the school known as the "Trenchcoat Mafia."

A notice posted on the Internet on Tuesday read:

"Greetings Gay Bikers,

Today, a bunch of our fellow homosexuals at Columbine HS in Denver Colorado, known as the Trench Coat Mafia, decided that they had taken enough crap from the straight community that had been abusing them and have decided to take matters into their own hands. We should all applaud their bravery and hope that they can hold out as long as possible in their fight for gay people everywhere. We can only hope that they can turn this into the gay alamo and hold out for 13 days of glory. If they can hold out for two days I think gay bikers everywhere should considering riding into Denver as a relief force to fight alongside them.

We need to show solidarity!!!

Queen Jeff"

[ The message is found at:[ST_rn=qs]/getdoc.xp?AN=468757180&CONTEXT=9246 46229. 364052583&hitnum=0 ]

Jefferson County Sheriff John Stone said 25 people may have been killed in the shooting. Two suspects were found dead inside the library hours later, he said.

The gunman who were found dead in the library at Columbine High School were students.

"It appears to be a suicide mission," Stone told reporters.


-- art welling (, April 20, 1999.

This is what happens when God and Guns are taken out of the classroom. Klinton and the liberals are to blame for this!

It wouldn't surprise me if Klinton wasn't somehow connected with the shooting. Take the public's mind off of his Kosovo massacres. That madman will stop at nothing, it makes me sick.

-- JBobSmith (, April 20, 1999.

jbob you sick sack of excrement. There is nothing funny here at all. Kids are dead.

-- art welling (, April 20, 1999.


F#@K the Trolls.


-- Thomas G. Hale (, April 20, 1999.

I understand they're not moving the bodies till the building is declared bad as I feel right now,I'm going to feel worse tomorrow when the final death count is announced...can't seem to stop hugging my boys...Cynthia

-- Cynthia Yanicko (, April 20, 1999.

I understand they're not moving the bodies till the building is declared bad as I feel right now,I'm going to feel worse tomorrow when the final death count is announced...can't seem to stop hugging my boys... Cynthia

-- Cynthia Yanicko (, April 20, 1999.

This whole situation is ghastly.

School shootings have been an unfortunate trend over the last several years. If Y2K is mentioned as part of this, I doubt if it was a prime motivator. This is a societal problem, not a Y2K problem. However, if this was done out of fear of Y2K, one wonders where they got their information from. It could be from the rampant speculations and assumptions and scaremongering found on some Y2K websites.

-- CJS (, April 20, 1999.

Nice smear there, CJS, though not subtle enough yet to pass muster, you troll.

-- BigDog (, April 20, 1999.

hit the submit button twice,sorry...Cynthia

-- Cynthia Yanicko (, April 20, 1999.

My point, CJS: if you're blaming this forum IN ANY WAY for Colorado, then stop being a coward and say so. Or, which forums ARE you blaming? Name them.

-- BigDog (, April 20, 1999.

So very, very sad.

Diane (a long ago, ex-high school teacher)

The Denver Post is following the story closely.


-- Diane J. Squire (, April 20, 1999.

Cynthia - Hugged my high school boy today - he doesn't often put up with that but ...

Hear on the radio on the way home that they were waiting for the police and military (NG) to clear the buildings of unexploded bombs and that the earlier explosions were of granade like devices. They apparently told someone before they shot them andwere overheard to say that they got the "recipes" for the bombs and the "grenades" off the internet.

And I agree, makes you want to cry and throw up at the same time and you wonder if you'll have the guts tomorrow morning to let your kid out the front door to go to high school. And all those dead children who missed life and parents who have to live without their children.

-- Valkyrie (, April 20, 1999.

What's with the tank with US CREW on the side of it, heard it on Fox News and a spokesman for the police said he had no idea but that command was at the school they could have called it up. What is this? Conspiring mind wants to know

-- Johnny (, April 20, 1999.

I gotta wonder if these 2 were extreme left-wing atheist?

-- KoFE (Your@town.USA), April 20, 1999.

CJS -- However, if this was done out of fear of Y2K, one wonders where they got their information from. It could be from the rampant speculations and assumptions and scaremongering found on some Y2K websites.

CJS, youre a sad human being.

All anyone has to do is read the Senate Report, Congressional Testimony, GAO reports and SEC 10-Q filings. Fear of something, is NEVER an excuse for taking lives. IMHO, neither is war.

On the other parallel thread, Leska said ...

... Have been watching coverage on CNN. Did anybody else hear the INCREDIBLE quote of the student that the gunmen were "Making a prediction about the Year 2000, that everything was going to fall apart, and they wanted their revenge before it happened." ?????? I could not believe my ears! Did anybody else hear that, and did you think, "Oh no, the news is going to go crazy talking about "Y2K dangerous lunatics."

If Leska says she heard it, then she did. Period.

Ive met her and feel I know her. Shes a nurse too. A true expert on life, and death.


-- Diane J. Squire (, April 20, 1999.

folks, the next time you walk past a video arcade, or a store that specializes in computer game software, stop and LOOK FOR A MINUTE. Next you are in a movie theater actually WATCH the previews and see how what percentage of the coming attractions involve violence and violent behavior. Over the last 15 years we have used the media, both new and old, to almost completely desensitize kids and to the concept that actions have consequences, and that violent actions cause pain suffering and death...and most importantly that pain, suffering and death are NOT subject to a reset switch or a secret keyboard do-overs.

In a very real sense our society has set itself up for these sorts of things, and is now reaping the results of our actions.

Arlin Adams

-- Arlin H. Adams (, April 20, 1999.

I wonder what would happen to these kinds of crimes if parents were charged when their children committed them. Sad, sad indeed.

-- FM (, April 20, 1999.

what's sad is, I don't even care.

-- ed (, April 20, 1999.

I agree with Arlin on this one.

The difference between video games and the real thing is not actively understood at the time a gamer is gaming.

Anyone who has spent any time playing 'Elite' knows that the intention behind lining up a cursor on the screen is no different than lining up the crosshairs on a weapons system. Reality is created in the mind. Some realities have consequences beyond the now.

Game Players (politicians in particular) need help to ensure that the games played do not have consequences for other people.

My sympathies and prayers go out to the people in Colorado and all the people in Kosovo.

-- Bob Barbour (, April 20, 1999.

Oh, and by the way, you can all kiss your "right to bear arms" goodbye.

-- ed (, April 20, 1999.

there will always be people who kill. in the days of the wild west, 70% of all males died violently. it may not seem like it sometimes, but things have improved. on a day like this, it helps to remember that.

-- jocelyne slough (, April 20, 1999.


You're right. That was a pretty stupid thing to say at a time such as this.

-- CJS (, April 20, 1999.

Bob - good point drawing the parallel with the situation in the Balkans!

Ed - re: damage to RKBA - personally I think it will be minimal, since the left dasn't dare offend the homosexual activist elements among them - if they make too much of this, they'll find themselves in direct conflict with the 'gay rights' part of the I bet the whole thing just gets swept under the rug.


-- Arlin H. Adams (, April 20, 1999.

I Agree with you.
The thing that almost makes me as ill as the events today is Clinton saying... Approximate quote " We need to teach our children how to resolve differences with words and not guns."

He sure is setting the example !
I think I'm going to be ill.

-- WebRNot (, April 20, 1999.

I question why these Trenchcoat Mafia would be allowed in school wearing large coats when I notice all the other kids are wearing lighter clothing such as shorts and tank tops. One person had on open toed sandals leading me to beleive the weather is very warm. It seems that the Trenchcoat Mafia would have really stood out and teachers should have questioned this.

This is a terrible thing to happen and makes every parent fear for their child's life. The whole world is going crazy.

What can we do to stop this?

-- Linda A. (, April 20, 1999.

We are all made less by this gruesome evil. It is inescapable. We are all made LESS.

-- Stan Faryna (, April 20, 1999.

I am just sick! I was in Littleton last night.

-- Gayla Dunbar (, April 20, 1999.

Just watched the PBS News Hour.

At the end of the program they had a report on the school shooting. During one of the onair sessions they showed a policeman being interviewed by off-camera reporters. A female reporter was asking him about the reasons for the shooting, and during her question mentioned, to paraphrase, Were hearing from the students that they were into death and destruction and Y2K ...

I distinctly heard her say it. Of course, the police spokesman didnt register that part of the question.

*Very Sad Sigh*

Diane, with tears

Tried searching for the PBS transcript at ...

Found a shortened PBS transcript, without the reporters questions, but with a picture of the police spokesman. 20.html

Other ... CNN coverage ...


CNN Transcripts for April 20, 1999

Note: This page is continually updated as new transcripts become available. If you cannot find a specific segment, check back later. (Or go to the next days transcripts).


-- Diane J. Squire (, April 20, 1999.

Linda A. asked, "what can we do to stop this?"

2Chronicles 7:14 "If my people, which are called by My Name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from Heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."

-- (nearly)Ready and Waiting (, April 20, 1999.

I live in Littleton believe it or not.

The community is in a state of shock here.

It is no accident that these massacres are on the increase - some call it a symptom of the terminal madness of the end times...

I'm sure we will see more of the same, as somebody just said on a local Denver talk station - what example is Clinton setting our children with his bombing of Kosovo and Sudan and Iraq... that violence is the answer...

On the plus side over 2,000 people turned up here to give blood, spontaneously, queuing for hours, no complaining - most eventually turned away as the blood bank couldn't cope...

My condolences to all who have lost loved ones.

This community had been destroyed - it has changed for ever.

-- Andy (, April 21, 1999.

Sounds like these killers were fundamentalist gun-loving y2k-fearing christians, just doing what all such people do. Expect more of the same as the looneys take over the asylum.

-- 5433 (, April 21, 1999.

One more thing.

There is a vote just about to go down in Dever on a new concealed carry gun propsal.

It LOOKED like it was going to be approved.



-- Andy (, April 21, 1999.

It is a comfort to find you all here tonight. A hug to all fellow parents and those who can remember and sympathize with the turmoil of adolescence. A handshake to all the young people who endure all the violent and prurient crap we adults slime them with everyday, and come through it still standing upright. Now this to add to it, so I hope the rest of us will (yes, I'm shouting) SHOW THEM WE RECOGNIZE THEIR WORK TO MAINTAIN THEIR INTEGRITY AND WE APPRECIATE THEM.

-- jor-el (, April 21, 1999.

Fascinating show partly addressing these gun massacre atrocities on tonights Jeff Rense show at

-- Andy (, April 21, 1999.

Preliminary reports on local radio here in San Diego have characterized the 2 dead shooters as "Goths", "outcasts", and "very into Marilyn Manson". Two angry, bitter teenagers who didn't fit in and apparently decided to play out a sick, dark revenge fantasy. Shades of Travis Bickle and Taxi Driver.

The darkness continues to gather...

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.hid), April 21, 1999.


I just came across this Washington Post article: srv/national/daily/april99/suspects21.htm


The shooters who turned Columbine High School into an unspeakable landscape of carnage yesterday were members of a small clique of outcasts who always wore black trench coats and spent their entire adolescence deep inside the morose subculture of Gothic fantasy, their fellow students said.


-- Kevin (, April 21, 1999.

What a sad tragic day....and disturbing evening! This evening, while sitting at the dinner table, I listened as my l7 year old grandaughter told us about the "shooting drills" held regularly at her high school. One expects "fire drills"...but shooting drills? Sometimes I wonder if we create our world as one who creates a painting..bit by bit. I am reminded of something my own mother told me many years ago. She said, "God created the world as a playground for souls and we have not learned how to play or be fair to eachother in the playground." My thoughts and prayers go out to parents and their children throughout this country. Families of children (those in and those out of control) need all the support they can get from all of us. One thing for sure, this old gramma feels heartsick tonight as I watch the news of all of the violence in the world. But, tomorrow is another day....the sun will come up and maybe some will have fun in this playground created for each of us. I will work in the garden and keep those in distress in my prayers.

-- Old Gramma (, April 21, 1999.

Leska, you gave a "...quote of the student that the gunmen were 'Making a prediction about the Year 2000, that everything was going to fall apart, and they wanted their revenge before it happened.'"

Earlier this year an episode of the US tv show "The Millennium" carried a similar story line. Any chance the killers were doing a copycat of it?

-- Iam (, April 21, 1999.


This is the closest quote I've seen that's halfway related to what you're asking about: srv/national/daily/april99/suspects21.htm


"They're basically outcasts, Gothic people," said Peter Maher, a junior who had a confrontation last July 4 with the shooters and several of their fellow members of the "Trench Coat Mafia," the black- clad teenagers' name for their clique. "They're into anarchy. They're white supremacists and they're into Nostradamus stuff and Doomsday."


-- Kevin (, April 21, 1999.

Trying not to cry over the subject itself, there are a couple issues here that relate to Y2K and are really, really important.

The first is that if you really look at the gun bills and laws, you will see an astonishingly "coincidental tendency" of "someone" to go off and shoot people in some very public way right before some gun bill is up for vote. A distant friend of mine once recited some of this to me. I couldn't believe that if it were true, everybody wouldn't know about it. I can't imagine how that kind of thing could be any kind of conspiracy, short of some mind control story which is really outside my league of belief, personally.

There is yet another issue which is also important. CJS wrote:

However, if this was done out of fear of Y2K, one wonders where they got their information from. It could be from the rampant speculations and assumptions and scaremongering found on some Y2K websites.

Taking the words right out of my mouth, BigDog responded:

Nice smear there, CJS, though not subtle enough yet to pass muster, you troll.

There is one little thing that I always thought odd that I never hear anybody else mention.

The Czechs who were called in to do work for the US Gov't during the gulf war on explosives, them being the experts, also apparently did a review on the OK bombing. Their conclusion: fertilizer bomb, fine whatever, but the bomb that did THIS was not fertilizer, it was high grade military explosive, and here's about 1.2 zillion reasons why we know that is so." I wish I could find again that info, it was on the net somewhere eons ago.

Now tread back in time. I remember this time really well, you see. I worked for a guy who was basically hanging off the right wing by his fingertips, who was so anti-clinton he actually PAID me to listen to Rush Limbaugh and read the fellow's book. And the stuff Rush had been doing on the air was so incredibly dangerous to the Clintons it was amazing. I could be wrong on my timelines but I think this was after the Vince Foster suicide. The stuff I heard on his show almost made my jaw drop to the ground every morning.

Then the OK building blows up. And the first thing that was said -- I could be wrong but I think it was by Clinton -- was about how this kind of behavior was sparked by people like radio talk show hosts breeding dissent, and it was discussed that there ought to be a law that would restrict people from "inflaming" the public toward the government.

The largest threat to the first amendment in history. It didn't go anywhere due to immediate outcry. But nobody else seemed to even notice that this had happened -- that this event had been used in that way, and that in fact, if it HAD succeeded in causing that minor little restriction to become law, it would have been the most radical change to our country's constitution ever.

Later when I read more about OK city, and decided that McVeigh was truly jerk not just for setting up a bomb, but for being shepherded into being the fall guy for a much larger result that had its own motivations and was piggybacked conveniently into his doings, then I began to wonder if the suggestion about restricting speech and 'inciting' people was, in fact, entirely accidental or spontaneous.

The same issues that threaten guns and other freedoms and rights are now being used to threaten even free speech. And if you think restricting guns is dangerous to our freedom, you have NO idea how free speech issues will be. Right now, all a cop has to do is drop a baggie of something into your pocket, car or trashcan, and you're doomed. Imagine if all ANYBODY has to do is say, "I heard them say something bad about the government, and they were saying it to OTHER people, and it could have incited those other people to go kill yet OTHER people! Arrest them!"

PJ in TX

-- PJ Gaenir (, April 21, 1999.

I gotta wonder if these 2 were extreme right-wing Christians?

-- FKyuKofe (Your@town.USA), April 21, 1999.

I know how you feel.

-- KoFE (your@town.USA), April 21, 1999.

Andy where is your head?

Quote from Andy:

One more thing. There is a vote just about to go down in Dever on a new concealed carry gun propsal.

It LOOKED like it was going to be approved.



End quote.

No, it's not a co-incidence Andy! The NWO and Trilaterals and Bilderburgers were behind it all! "We can't have that law passed in CO. Execute plan 1384." If I lived in your demented world of conspiracies where all of life's happenings were the work of mysterious, all powerful puppeteers pulling stings behind the scenes, I think I would blow my fucking brains out. You are not well, get help soon.

-- Uncle Deedah (, April 21, 1999.

I cannot but imagine the grief that the parents of these kids must feel. Though nothing will undo the trajedy you have to ask yourself could it have been prevented and can we prevent a replay at another time. As mentioned earlier, we need to look at the desensitivity that permeates our culture. I do think that the bottom line is that there is little discernment among most people to discern good and evil. There were obvious warnings that these students were messed up and clearly taking the evil road. Students wearing black trench coats to school doesn't send some sort of signal to the authorities? Parents of a student had warned authorities a year earlier of threats made to their son by one of the students that committed the murderous rampage. As usual, it fell on dead ears. Public schools in our country are literal war zones and have been for several years. Are students safe to attend public schools? My opinion is no they are not. Though this killing is rare, it can happen again.

-- Mary (, April 21, 1999.

CNN Headline News carried a sidebar report this morning about the influence of popular culture on teens, with lots of outtakes from "Natural Born Killer" and the like. First time I've seen the finger pointed directly at the pervasiveness of violence in movies, video games, television essentially as it was happening. Then they quote some Hollywood director saying piously: "We don't create society, we reflect society." Gawd.

-- Cash (, April 21, 1999.

5433: Please read the ample quotes on either this thread or another one fully related, which documents a STRONG possibility that this was much more a reaction by these two for the "treatment" they had received for their homosexuality.

Reading the entries from the website aledged to have been created by one of the shooters strongly suggests the above. If true, then the "Christian, right wing" appelation can NOT be MORE FORCEFULLY DENIED. Both find this alternate lifestyle abhorent, and anathema. (redundancy intentional)

Additional evidence reported in teh mainstream media this AM (Wed) strongly suggests that this was heavily pre-planned, with pre-event caching of explosive devices in the school (sheer number of devices found argues this, or accomplices).


-- chuck, a Night Driver (, April 21, 1999.

Uncle Deedah,

This isn't really the time, place or thread for this. For the last few months the issue dominating the media here in Denver is the new concealed carry gun law propsal which is coming up for a vote. Then this happens.

If you want to know where my mind is at (and I don't think you really do Unc), listen to the third hour of the Jeff Rense show last night at I doubt if you will bother as I've noticed that you're usually full of rhetoric, (piss and wind in my parlance). The program concerns how kids are influneced adversely by TV, Arcade Games, Movies, Drugs (ritalin etc.) - listen to it and write to me privately - let's take this off line.

-- Andy (, April 21, 1999.

PJ, Funny thing is about 2 days ago, on anniversary of OK and waco I made a remark to friend.."uh oh, Hitler's birthday is coming up..wonder what will happen this year"...

Prayers to the families. I sincerely hope no one related to any of the students are anywhere near this forum and some of the strange remarks.

-- Moore Dinty moore (, April 21, 1999.

As I posted on the other thread, have you ever SEEN a Marilyn Manson video? Our demonic chickens have come home to roost. As for tv and Hollywood directors who continue to deny that their filth influences people (the lack of influence must be why companies pay fortunes/minute for ads--so ineffectual), they should be labelled as money-sucking liars. I hope they get slammed with a HUGE class-action suit. Otherwise, if 'society' sees nothing wrong with massively indoctrinating kids into a culture of death, then that 'society' mustn't feign surprise when the indoctrination is shown to work.

-- Spidey (, April 21, 1999.

To re-post this from the related thread:

Well, it looks like we weren't "hearing imaginary things."

Unfortunately, there IS a Y2K (tenuous) connection with the Colorado school tragedy. And who should confirm it but a certain known reporter to this Forum, whose spin wobbles on whatever trendy take makes him look 'cool,' regardless of any sense of integrity.

Gloating at the collective alarm and discomfort we've shared from our decent, saddened hearts, De.clan twists the verification:

Denver Shooters Were Y2K Buffs

Last night we went to another CERT class to reinforce basic skills in fire prevention and correct use of fire extinguishers. It felt so good to drill these practical skills which will enable us to help ourselves, our neighbors and community, and assist the Fire Dept. should Y2K disruptions occur in significant numbers and effects. Every class has more information which is useful.

Because we go into elders' homes to assist them when they have been unable to attend to many home safety tasks, learning these simple and highly effective disaster prevention measures gives us another way to help safeguard our community.

When you are overwhelmed and saddened by tragic news, direct that energy into using the wonderful community-building tips and techniques so well-detailed on this amazing Forum by going out into your neighborhoods and reaching out, helping your community develop self-reliance and self-sufficiency and safe environments.

xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx x

-- Leska (, April 21, 1999.

You might want to take a look at some of the anti-terrorism & FBI information dug up on this threat.

I cant help but think is going to be applied to Littleton, Colorado ... given the existence of bombs.

Asked by Scott Johnson, Editor, Y2KToday ...

Need your help. gang! 000jrH

BTW in the process of that research I also ran across this, form the Terrorism Research Center ...

Calendar of Significant Dates Compiled from data from the U.S. Department of State, the calendar is a working project which lists dates that have importance for present and future counterterrorism research and analysis.


Under April it reads ...

Germany, Federal Republic of
Adolf Hitler's Birthday
Right-wing, neo-Nazi, and skinhead groups celebrate primarily in Germany; however, racist and anti-Semetic groups commemorate Hitler's birth throughout Europe.

Pretty icky, huh?

*Still Sighing, Sadly*


-- Diane J. Squire (, April 21, 1999.

indeed Diane - very very icky...

BTW has anybody heard anything about these kids' parents??


-- Arlin H. Adams (, April 21, 1999.

For those who are afraid of going back to school (or for those who are afraid to send their kids back to school), there is an answer: Home schooling.

My wife and I have 5 kids ranging in age from 1 to 12, and two of the three school aged kids are home schooled (the oldest will be home schooled again next year). The oldest is in a small Christian school in the basement of a church. One thing that home schoolers don't have is the fear that their kids are going to be killed or injured while at school.

The reason that this stuff is happening is because we took God out of the schools. We need to bring God back in! And if the government won't let us, we need to bring the schools into our homes (home schooling!) and bring God in.

If you have any fear about going to school (or sending your kids to school), please look into home schooling. There are a lot of great curriculi out there, such as A-Beka, ACE, etc. There are many support groups, too. A great place to start is at (or whatever search engine you prefer) and search on "homeschool". Hotbot lists over 13,000 sites alone!

My heart goes out to everyone involved. May God bring comfort to them.


"As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!"

-- Ricky Bennett (, April 21, 1999.


If in the home schooling you teach tolerance and understanding for ALL religions and peoples, then you are teaching well. Please, remember, kids need to socialize with others not of like-mind to put tolerance and understanding into action.

Deeds, rather than just words.


Linking other related Colorado Yourdon discussion threads ...

OT - Colorado shooting- Good God what is wrong with us 000k67

OT: A Must Read Article to Understand Student Violence 000kHx

Re: Littleton, didn't Hardliner predict something like this would happen? 000kHE

Clinton and Shootings Related? 000kHl

Declan on Colorado shootings-Y2K link 000kKm

-- Diane J. Squire (, April 21, 1999.

Why do people assume that homeschoolers are narrow-minded people that teach their kids to be prejudicial? Those boys that did the killings yesterday weren't homeschooled. Why is it more scary to some people to have kids being raised and taught by family, than the government? If my child is homeschooled, and taught to obey the Bible, how would that hurt society ? Will they open fire in a crowded school? Will they tie people to their car and drag them to death? Why is it wrong to imprint my values in the mind of my child, but it's OK to have whatever philosophy that is currently P.C. being shoved down their throats? Can anyone here see the forest for the trees? This society has *not* improved since we decided that there was no such thing as 'absolute standards'. Just my two cents worth. If my comments seem like I'm irritated, it's because I'm tired of people getting their feathers in a dander when they hear that I'm going to homeschool my child-even though their own children are on drugs, or pregnant, or are so disrespectful to them that it makes me sick. But, without even taking time to think, they parrot the perceived down-sides of home- schooling that is fed to them by those that want to take more and more control away from parents.

-- Madeline (, April 21, 1999.


I have no plan on taking this off line. Nor do I plan on entertaining any ideas that this tragic event is somehow pre-ordained. I will not enter your never-neverland of vast consiracies responsible for everything that ticks. That is the entrance to paranoia, and we as humans do tend to bring upon ourselves that which we dwell upon to excess.

As far as me being full of piss and wind, yes, I like my beer.

-- Uncle Deedah (, April 21, 1999.

OK Unc I respect your wishes,

It's a shame that you've got hold of the wrong end of the stick here - I am not suggesting that this tragedy here in my (for now) home town was set-up by some mysterious group, rather that this is symptomatic of an acceleration of violence wiorldwide.

In the UK we have had the horrors of Hungerford and Dunblane; in Australia there was the Port Arthur massacre; and similar incidents have happened in New Zealand and, of course, many times in the United States - do you remember the Wendy's massacre a few years ago in Tulsa? I used to eat there regularly when I was working for American Airlines. This is all getting too close for comfort. It's positively spooky.

The program last night addressed all these and the Doctor gave a few ideas about how children (and adults) these days are affected by the media - and that includes the internet which I for got to mention in my last post.

Later Unc - you're piss and wind twin.

-- Andy (, April 21, 1999.


We've always been a bloodthirsty lot. War and killing has been the natural human condition since that black monolith first convinced man to pick up a bone and smash in his nieghbor's skull. Our history as a race of beings is a history of death and blood-letting. I am not sure if the pace is picking up, but consider that with a world population bordering on six billion people, even if the statistical average for truly whacked out people remains the same, the sheer increase in numbers means that we are going to have a hell of a lot more high profile psycho cases.


-- Uncle Deedah (, April 21, 1999.

I didn't see Diane make ANY assumption. She simply pointed out that this is a suggested portion of the home school modality. Also, MANY of the home schooler parents DO forget about the extracuricular socialization experiences. Know of a couple of daughters who were invited to the prom and parents were SHOCKED since they had forgotten that the kids were of prom age. 'Tis easy to lose sight of the little things that give the big things a framework.


-- chuck, a Night Driver (, April 21, 1999.

From Drudge:


A massive error is circulating in the media about Tuesday's Colorado school tragedy: It was not, repeat, not the worst attack on a school in United States history.

[REUTERS: "The country's worst school massacre, in Littleton, Colo." UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL: "The worst school massacre in U.S. history."]

On May 18, 1927, 45 people were killed, including 38 elementary students, by a series of dynamite explosions at the Bath Michigan School.

After detonating explosives he planted under the school, "maniac bomber" Andrew Kehoe, a school board member and treasurer and farmer, blew up his pickup truck, killing himself and the Bath School superintendent.

"I don't remember hearing any noise, but I remember flying in the air and seeing things fly between me and the sun," remembers AdaBelle McGonigal, then 11 and in the fifth grade. "But I don't ever remember falling."

AdaBelle's ear was nearly torn off in the blast that killed 38 of her classmates. Seven adults also died that day.

Because this happened so long ago, it is something that most reporters don't know about and have failed to reference in the coverage of the Littleton, Colorado nightmare.

-- a (a@a.a), April 21, 1999.

"Another AOL member, using the handle "AzMstr17" warns about a fight against the "Power Boyz" -- and declares that "cOlUmBInE HigH ScHoOl SuCks".

Member Name: Jessie Location: 7th layer of hell NeAr DeNver Yo' Birthdate: August 13, 1982 Sex: Male Marital Status: ToSsInG My bItCh QuEeN's SalAd Hobbies: hAnGinG PoPpErs ExTaSSeeY BoYYee Ya Ya FloCkO SEaGuLLs Yo yO Computers: RhYdIn RUlZ ThE LAnD UnDer hiS BlA C K BooTz Occupation: TRENCH COAT MAFIA iN Da HoUse BoYeEeeeEeeEEEEEEsss, hAnGiN, baNgInn, fStiNg, ToSSin Da' SAlAd Yo yO Personal Quote: "fIgHt Da PoWeR BoYz.. tReNcH CoAt MaFiA RULZ!!!! cOlUmBInE HigH ScHoOl SuCks"

You don't suppose they had been checking out this forum and DiEteR's writing style do you?

-- Hmmmmm (just@thinking.aloud), April 21, 1999.

Hmmm - must admit I thought the same thing...

I am not really concerned about the Y2K link, which I don't think even exists. I don't believe any major news source takes it seriously. I have heard no mention of it on CNN or MSNBC.

What I AM concerned about is the constant discussion in the media around the Internet and how it may have effected these young men and provided them with easy access to bomb making instructions, and to connect with other individuals of like mind, thus feeding into their sickness.

Can you say "sudden outcry for Internet regulation"???


-- Roland (, April 22, 1999.


What is emerging here, however, is more than a story about how these young outcasts were simply different in their taste in apparel.

Students are beginning to describe how a long-simmering rivalry between the sullen members of their clique and the school's athletes escalated and ultimately exploded in this week's deadly violence that left more than a dozen dead and 22 wounded at Columbine High School.

The tension between the two groups began more than a year ago as seemingly harmless name-calling, according to students interviewed Wednesday. The feud gradually escalated to pushing and shoving.

Then it got worse.

"They hated it when we called them gay or inbreeds," says Mike Smith, a Columbine track athlete. "We pushed them around. They fought back."

Smith and others say tensions reached a breaking point a year ago. During the last two weeks of the 1998 school year, the groups were at constant odds. In fact, says Smith, the two groups squared off nearly every afternoon.

"It was just basically fighting," he says. "But we didn't want nobody to die. I can't help but think now that they never forgot."

Almost to a person, students and teachers interviewed seemed to be well aware of this existing tension.


-- Kevin (, April 23, 1999.

As a writer, perhaps I can say something about the effects of media. Since I'm working on creating that media, and have been intensively studying said media for a while, I know what I'm talking about.. maybe.

Firstly, as a writer, my interest is people. I've spent about six hours in the past couple of days searching the Net for anything available on the Trenchcoat Mafia. I wanted to find out what made these kids tick- and why they'd decide to explode. What made them plan out their own deaths. What made them turn that plan into reality- why they pulled the trigger. What made them take that step over the line of no return? I've read everything available on them. On the kids. On their being bullied. On Goths (I know a few personally). On Marilyn Manson. Why did these kids do it?

And my conclusion?

Because someone -most likely Clintonista agents- got them with a mind ray. Someone in a black helicopter was controlling them as they did the killing. The motive was to prevent the concealed-carry bill.

No, just kidding. Andy's a smart guy, but I think he might be wrong on this. No, I think that these kids (ok, one of them is my age.. so what) did it because they're operating on an entirely different code of logic to what we have. We, as intelligent rational people, have something like Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics happening in our mind. First priority: Stay alive. Survival. Second priority, to be done when it doesn't conflict with first priority: Emotion (or whatever.) Third priority: Specific goals. (Sometimes, 2nd and 3rd priorities are interchanged. I pride myself on being able to think clearly through emotion.)

Anyway, to commit suicide for selfish reasons (as opp. to unselfish, like dying in combat so your buddies can escape), you have to be thinking along different lines. I'm not talking euthanasia here (escaping pain), but doing what these kids did. Okay, maybe you can let your emotions get away with you. Depressed because you lost all your money in the crash and your girlfriend dumped you, so you put a gun in your mouth and fire. These kids weren't like that.

It wasn't a momentary lapse. They planned it. For weeks, I'm sure. I've played with explosives, made napalm and the odd pipe bomb myself. (We called it chemistry. Didn't do anything more serious with it beyond blowing holes in my friend's lawn.) To make those things, you can NOT feel depressed/suicidal or you will screw up and possibly blow up. You have to be thinking clearly. These kids were thinking. Also, apparently they were "smart". By this I assume we're talking high-IQ smart not high-brains smart; if they had brains, they'd not have done this.

We have two intelligent outcasts who decided to kill a lot of people and then themselves. These people made a rational decision, by their rationality. This decision is by our standards a clearly IR-rational one. Hence, they had to have been using different logic, different mental physics, to us.

Trying to piece together and understand a whole different logic is hard when you already have a logic. As a writer, I have characters do things for reasons. One character likes money. He goes after the dollars because he wants to. But how do you have a character kill others, then himself? How do you plausibly motivate someone to do that?

These guys seem to run on the belief that "life is the road to death". (As opposed to "death is the final stop on the road of life.") That death is good, to be glorified and venerated. War and violence, as bringers of death, are good. Hitler is their hero because he brought about so much death in such a horrible, organised way (Auschwitz.) And because the Nazis were a handsome, theatrical regime (lots of parades, flags, burning torches) that these kids would have liked.

Anyway, to people thinking this way- to go out with guns blazing on a symbolic date would have been brilliant to them. Spreading fear. Going after their enemies. Spreading death. (These kids showed up at a scheduled fight with swords and knuckledusters, once. Maybe this means that they saw themselves in a romantic way.) The two killers might have been imagining themselves as someone else -perhaps thinking 'I'm Hitler' or something- as they did the killings. Or possibly just revelling in the fact that THEY are doing something legendary (in their mindsets) like this.

Of course, there's also precedent. This thing is going to make it all worse. The more cases of this, the stronger the conception that 'Shooting up your school is what you do, if you're a twisted kid. You can kill everyone else, then yourself.' These kids probably paid attention to Jonesboro and the others. These kids also set a record. Guess what the next lot of kids are gonna go do? Try and beat that record!

Now, about violence. I recently finished a novel called Force 105. Basically, it tells the story of a bunch of American soldiers who invade Siberia to distract the Russians from Europe. When the Pentagon abandons them, the survivors make their own way out.

OF COURSE there is going to be violence in that story! The characters don't resolve their dispute with the Russians by talking nicely! There's a lot of fighting.. battles, smaller-scale gunfights, a jailbreak, a couple of murders. I write this because I enjoy reading shooting. This is a historic thing. One thousand years ago, the Vikings told each other war stories in their halls. Two thousand years ago, the Romans were into watching gladiators. Three thousand years ago, the Babylonians probably told each other war stories about how Grand-daddy killed an Egyptian in the Median wars.

Likewise, if I was writing a detective thriller, I'd have a couple of gunfights in there. Why? Because shooting is entertaining. I'm not twisted or sick- it's just a dramatic device.

Most violent stuff is okay, IMO. The REALLY bad stuff -like Natural Born Killers, which IMO should be BANNED, 1st Amendment irrelevant- is what causes it. If anyone hasn't seen NBK, here's the plot: Handsome young man (Woody Harrelson, I think) meets up with woman whose parents are dickheads. Harrelson kills woman's parents, 'freeing' her. They go on a rampage, killing twenty or so people. Media loves them. Gangs of people calling themselves fans. "I mean, killing bad and everything, but Micky and Mallory are COOL!". Cut to a year later. Killers are in jail. Riot starts. They shoot their way out, causing a shitload of guards to die in the process. Kill the TV reporter (a fan of theirs) who helps them get away (the guy understands and doesn't seem to mind dying.) Then they walk off happily into the woods.

That movie sickens me. It glorifies mass murder. THAT kind of thing is evil. But 'regular' cinematic violence -in the shape of movies like The Dirty Dozen and more recent action films- isn't so bad. In my opinion.

By the way, I've spent hundreds of hours -if not thousands- playing Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake, and the more recent 3d action games. And I watch a lot of films, read lots of books. And I've never had any serious desire to kill someone. Let alone someone I've never met.

-- Leo (, April 23, 1999.

I still know very little about the situation.

But it looks to me like athletes picked on nerds physically. There have been reports of taunting, but I suspect that the computer nerds were able to taunt in reply just fine.

No, it looks to me like athletes *assaulted* on a regular basis a group of weirdos who did not have the ability to fight back physically. Apparently the school's administration did nothing.

So we have victims of physical assault in the pressure of high school, and they exploded in a way that all agree was inappropriate because

1) the use of guns is an inexcusable escalation of the use of force, and

2) completely innocent people were victims of this act of rage.

I am reminded of the old saying that fecal material rolls downhill: Victims respond to assaults against them by assaulting other innocents.

If this scenario is correct, than the fault lies with those who physically assaulted the nerds and the school administrators who allowed it to go unpunished.

Clearly there is a problem with how some youngsters respond to pressure. But it seems to me that such pressure should not be allowed by adults to exist in the first place.

My views are based upon speculation, not facts. But whatever the facts turn out to be, I think that it is remarkable that everyone in school seemed to know that the killers were longtime victims of the jocks, and nothing was done about it.

-- GA Russell (, April 24, 1999.

In this time of despair...the one and only person we can turn to is God. No doubt about it. God is the only one who can give us the strength and courage we need to move on and to do more in order to stop the violence. There's only one problem. I hear everyone saying "let's ask God....." "God help our schools.....". And that's wonderful. But these words are coming from the Government....the Government, which has BANNED all school prayer. Obviously, there's your answer. Put prayer back in schools! In the 1950's and 60's....when there was prayer in school....the system's biggest problems were children talking during class, or chewing gum, or not throwing paper in the waste basket. Since our government, which might I add is based on the theory of the Bible....has taken prayer out of our school systems...our fears only grow more and more each day. We're worried about massacures, guns, rapes, harrassment, abuse, fighting, theft...etc! Is it all a coincedence? As a student, I know that me and some of my friends, whom are Christians, would love to be able to organize a prayer together and pray during breaks...etc. I don't think the problem is with the students, persay. I think the problem is that we have no morality in our leaders.

-- Aundreeuh (, April 17, 2002.

Wow. You people are stupid. And those kiddies probably deserved to die. Nothing is just. Nothing will be ideal. And when I am God I will take all of you to hell with me.

-- Jezzy (, September 11, 2003.

im glad those kids died in the school hine hitler! i love

-- lance ferres (, November 13, 2003.

"Bowling for Columbine"

Are we a nation of gun nuts or are we just nuts?

-- Thought_provoking_film (check@it.out), November 15, 2003.

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